[Transcript starts at 0:40]
Hello, hello, hello, my podcast people, and thank you for joining me for yet another episode of my favorite online business podcast. If you are listening, if you are watching, if you are tuning in on the day that it drops, it is Monday, October 26th, get ready to change them clock backs and clocks back, not clock backs, clocks back and have the sunset at 430. But I do actually think that this is the better one, fall back, I think this is the better time change versus spring, but I am sorry for the folks up north, because it's going to be dark just for your whole life.
But I think honestly all of us just want to fucking stop with the back and forth, it's like pick one, stick to it. Hopefully it would be this one that's coming up, I believe, I don't know, people, you know, far more well-equipped with knowing this information to be deciding that, far more well-equipped than I am, obviously. But either way, as per always, I am grateful for where I live, it's the best place, and I'm going to try to make a point to take more advantage of it, the fact that I live here, like every day goes by and I'm like, I really fucking love living here, and I need to take more advantage than I already do.
But let's switch gears, folks, into today's main topic, because I am excited about this one, this took me a long time to outline, I outline these things on, I outline and record them same day, usually on Mondays, today is actually a Tuesday, because I set my schedule, I knew I'd have more time, and I think that there was a reason that I was holding off on recording this, because I didn't have my ideas fully formulated, but I fully formed rather, but I knew that it would take me, I think somewhere deep down inside, it would take me a little bit longer, and it did. And so today we're talking about online biz coaches, and taking inspiration from a message that I received from a, on Instagram, from a dope Insta homie, and she said, saw your reel after hearing Colleen Nichols talk about the ick she's been feeling from coaches on here, I would love for you to talk more pointedly about this podcast, maybe? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So as you don't know, I will link by I mean, Courtney and Jojo, thank you, both of you will link the reel that I did, which basically, which actually did not get very much traction, but that shit was fucking good.
And I don't fucking care. I said what I said. Just speaking to online business, and like, don't fall for the bullshit, basically that kind of stuff.
So we'll link that. But I have been thinking about this topic for a bit online biz coaches, especially I'm in business space and online business coaches, and figuring out the direction that I want to take, without just complaining for a whole episode, because that's not what I want to do. And nor do I think it's actually helpful in any way.
For those of you who don't know me, if you're new to the podcast, I'm an online business coach. I've been an online business coach since fucking 2015. So 11 years at this point.
So all this I'm saying, I'm saying this, we can consider them damaging admissions. And I understand the ick that people get from online biz coaches. For a long time, I didn't even want to say that that's what I was, because I was like, but like, people know what it is, for better or for worse.
So you know, but I just want to put that out there in case any of you are new, welcome. But as of this episode, it's not like I can, it's also not like I can call anyone out. Anyway, one, I wouldn't do that, because I don't give a fuck.
But two, I don't like follow business coaches. I don't see a ton of this happening, but I know it happens. I typically kind of hear it through the grapevine.
Sometimes folks ask Lex about this. Or I see it on threads more than anything. Threads be too toxic.
I can't be on there. And I know I say it all the time. Like, I blame that on it a lot.
Anytime I go on there, I just get annoyed. So I really am. I'm on Reddit all the time, love it.
And YouTube. But threads, that ain't it. But I don't follow people to directly see it.
I just kind of, it kind of gets brought into my ecosystem. And then I'm just like, this is bullshit again. But the main thing to start off with is that, you know, as I was writing this episode and outlining it, I wanted to put myself in the shoes of a beginner, right? And if you're not a beginner, this episode still applies to you, wholly applies to you.
But I'm going to give you a little less grace with this first part. So I think in back to 2014, 2015, 2016, I started doing this online business stuff in 2014. So wasn't an online business coach in 2014.
What am I saying? I started doing online business coaching about 2019, not 2014. I started being online and doing online business in 2014. So scratch that, what I said earlier.
Don't cut it out. Courtney, we don't edit shit, but y'all listening, that's the correction. But I think back to 2014, 2015, 2016, I didn't know shit about shit.
And I think back to the early advice that I got and who it came from, right? And I wanted to use as part of the podcast logic to like shout out those people and just thank them. Perry Nicholson, Stop Chasing Pain. He was always and still is leading the way in every way, shape or form, right? Just leading the way in every way.
He takes the arrows for us. He always has, both in person and online. He's always served as my North Star and shout out to Allison as well for making it possible for me to follow that North Star.
Shout out to Doc Jen Fitt, who told me to use ConvertKit. She was in the online space before, well, before I was. We met because of social media, but she was already doing stuff on there.
And I distinctly remember the advice that she gave me to use ConvertKit for email marketing and it served me very well. ConvertKit's Craft and Commerce Conference, that was a great pull into the online business world. I met Claire Pelletreau there.
I've had a lot of touch points with Claire since then, a lot of help from her. I'm still very much in each other's ecosystem. Danny Matei got me started up with Profit First.
He always did in-person business, but still use Profit First to this day and that was a big thing. He was doing e-books, his generous affiliate model, he had a super generous affiliate model. I made like $1,000 from selling one of his programs to Ruben, my guy Ruben, who I met.
And that is what allowed me to go to Craft and Commerce, or maybe he's with a podcast movement. Either way, let me go to a conference and it was because of that generous affiliate model, which was like 50% of the sale. Jared Moon, who's partners with Danny, he recommended that I use Demio, which is a webinar software, which I stopped using.
I don't use that. I use it just for a short time, but it really got me in the mindset of like, just try it, get started and figure it out. And if you don't like it, you can switch and you'll know what you want to switch to because you'll be like, okay, this is why I don't like this.
My first Breathing with a Maestro course, it was on Vimeo, my first online course. It was on Vimeo. Do not do that.
Do not fucking do that. But I did that because I was like, just try it, figure it out and make the money and you can like move forward and then switch it. Claire Pelletreau, she helped me with that sales pitch.
I already had it and she was like, hey, here's some holes here. And I was like, I kind of took some of the advice, but I was like, okay. Jimmy McKay helped me with the podcast.
He's the one that helped me get this podcast started. I owe everything when it comes to podcasting to Jimmy. Absolutely.
Jill, my bestie, the Instagram intensive or what became the Instagram intensive was going to be an ebook. And she was like, immediately fucking no. And I was like, do a challenge.
I almost died in that fucking challenge. I've not done one since. But I did it.
And then I sold a course and it did very well. And I ran that program for 17 rounds. Right.
It was a huge success. And I also learned that I didn't want to sell that way, which is a great, super, super valuable knowledge. But it continued, you know, she continued to support me.
I mean, obviously we worked together. She had belief in me. We partnered with things.
I really learned a ton about like the numbers side of online business from her. Right. And I've had these, I've been super fortunate.
That these were my mentors and my role models and my guides and the folks that were helping me out. But I will also say that all of the advice I received was always paired with asking myself, did this feel good? Not does this feel good because it's easy, but did this feel good in my gut or did it give me the ick? Right. So as I think back to those early days, I, and I'm so grateful for everyone I crossed paths with.
I am trying to do it also doing so to try and, and I, you know, putting myself in that position to have the same, I don't know, I didn't know, or I don't know shit about shit mindset that a newbies maybe, maybe have today and kind of like trying to understand like why they may believe stuff. I got to say, you can not know shit about shit and still know that shit is too good to be true. You can not know shit about shit and still know yourself and what is values aligned and what isn't.
Right. And I said, I'm giving less grace to those of you that have been in it for a bit. Cause like you fucking better know your values by now.
You're just starting. Maybe you're like, I don't fucking know. I'm trying to give a little more grace.
Right. But like, you know, example for my own, for me personally, like I have a ton of books. I've got a ton behind me.
You can see a bunch of them back there. I've got a bunch of them over there. I've got like a lot of books and I have a ton of business books that I bought early on and I never even fucking opened them.
Like all of what are these, like the .com secrets, I ain't opened any of those fucking things. Right. Like also you folks know I don't be opening a lot of books, but I bought them or I was gifted some of them and I was just like, you know, start it.
And I'm like, eh, this ain't it. Right. You don't have to fucking believe everything you're told.
I didn't open the books because I got to see the people that wrote the books. And I was like, I don't really like you. Like, I don't really like what you're doing.
So I'm not going to read your fucking thing. I can get the information from somebody else. You don't have to believe everything you're told.
Like I said earlier, you know, sitting down to Alan this episode, I, it really got me thinking about my point, like what's the, what am I trying to say in this episode? And how do I make this actionable and not just be like, stop fucking believing those lying ass online business coaches, because that's true. So in sitting and thinking about this, I decided it's probably best to lead with the punch line, which is the takeaway, big takeaway, a big takeaway, which is use your brain and trust your gut. If it feels too good to be true, it's too fucking good to be true.
You know this, right? At the risk of making this a bait and switch episode, which is not going to be, but I'm going to say that I want to talk about the reality and we use this episode to what's left of this episode to talk about the reality of online business and basically who succeeds and who doesn't, or perhaps better, more, more appropriately, more accurately stated who has the greatest likelihood of success, which does tie into why online business coaches give you the X. So, you know, regarding the ick, right? You get the ick because you know that person's fucking lying, right? You get the ick because you know that what that person is saying isn't true or isn't the whole truth. You get the ick because you know that that what that person is saying or doing has questionable ethics behind it. You get the ick because you know what that person is saying or doing is in direct opposition to your beliefs and your values, right? You get the ick because you know, you don't want to be on the receiving end of whatever the fuck that person is doing or saying or telling you to do.
So fucking listen to that, listen to that ick and don't do it. I think what happens here maybe is that folks get the ick, but then they see other folks who, you know, maybe they know whatever doing this thing and having success or maybe folks that just look like them having, which I'm gonna come back to, you know, having the success with that approach and they're like, well, maybe then is it the right thing? Is it okay? Is it the only way to succeed? To me, if something is against my values, I don't care if I'm the only fucking person who feels that way. I ain't doing it.
I will lose while knowing that everyone else is wrong. That's how it is. There's a, I'm Capricorn through and through.
And I say that because there's a picture that are like a meme, whatever that I saw on Instagram and it was like Capricorn. Then it was like that one person and then it was like a thousand people and it was like, yeah, you're all wrong. And I was like, yes, if it's against my values, fuck it, I ain't doing it.
All right. Something to highlight here, and this is important, and this is my belief, this is important to my thesis within this episode is that females in society, females, people that were born and raised female, they are socialized for sameness. And white women as a direct product of supremacy culture, I didn't say white supremacy, but supremacy culture as an umbrella, white supremacy underneath that.
They are incentivized to think, act, look the same, or at least think, act, and look in a particular way. Because that way is how you acquire resources. You acquire safety.
You acquire power. It's how you win. White women in particular incentivized to look for that sameness and to lean into that sameness, which is exactly what puts white women in a position to have tremendous success in online business if they are at the top of the pyramid.
Flip side, coming to me, growing up, looking how I look, if you are watching this on YouTube, you see what I look like. If you are listening, if you're listening to this, my picture's on the fucking cover, so you know what I look like, right? But growing up, looking how I look has been a huge benefit for me, in my opinion, because it's meant that if I want to do something, I cannot wait for someone else who looks like me, thinks like me, behaves like me, but especially looks like me to do it first, or I will be waiting forever. Waiting for forever.
That, just to say all the things, that experience paired with my mom's unwavering, undying, just endless support and everything, and then I have inherent talents and gifts just related to things that society values, right? I am intelligent, I'm athletic, I have thin privilege, I'm healthy, I am aesthetically symmetrical, at least symmetrical enough. That has allowed me to double down on this inherent willingness to be the only one. Be like, fuck you, you're all wrong.
Because I can lean on the groupness from the other stuff as well. But I'm not here to say, despite that, that it has been easier for me to lean into my values, because that's objectively not true, and I'm not saying that because I think that if I was to say that, it gives people an out, and they're like, well, it was just easier for you, so I'm not going to do it. I am here to say, and I bring those points up, I'm here to say that I have done this, leaned into my values, seen things through my values for 41 years, and that is thus the lens that I view things through, and it has made it so clear to me when that's not happening, right? Example of this, fish don't know they're wet, but humans do, right? Humans do know when they're wet.
Why? Because it's a different lens. You step into that other world, you step into the water, and now you notice the things. I have lived in a world for 41 years of leaning into living by my values.
It is so apparent when someone else isn't. That in mind, some of what I see people debating on social media, or just in general when it comes to our business, is so fucking stupid to me. It feels so common sense, and I hate it.
Prices on your website, of fucking course, of fucking course, put your prices on your fucking website. What a stupid fucking thing to be arguing about. Part of me, a very small part of me feels bad saying it so bluntly, but then I look around at what is going on in the United States, and I'm like, I'm not going to contribute to this problem.
What's that problem? Sane washing things, right? It's sane washing shit that has no business even being discussed. These things are so fucking stupid, we don't even need to be discussing these things. But we breathe life into them, we give them oxygen, and then we debate them.
Immediately fucking no. Put your fucking prices on your website. This is an old argument, it needs to die, I can't believe we're even discussing that.
Another example of this, hiring your work out overseas. Why do you think people want to do this? Because it's fucking cheaper. Are you and doing this any better than what we see with these corporations like Amazon who underpay their workers, or for those of you that are like the bootlegs, they're paying them enough, but not nearly what they fucking deserve.
It's the same shit. You're just the master in this case, and yes, I use that word very intentionally. You know this shit is wrong, you don't fucking do it.
Don't debate it, don't give it energy and attention and oxygen and twist yourself up into not trying to figure out a way to justify it. Yes, ultimately, the system is the problem, yes, extractive capitalism is the problem. But if we are contributing to it in our own way on a smaller scale, we are still part of the problem as well.
So circling back, let's bring it back to what I was saying earlier with pyramids and white women and extractive capitalism, online business, and who has the greatest likelihood of success when it comes to online business, it is white women who look a certain way. Why? Because the market size, right? White women are the largest buyer segment. It is white men who simply fucking exist because patriarchy and white supremacy culture.
And people who care about growth more than they care about anything else, right? And they care about the growth of their bank account, the growth of their follower account, the growth of their business more than anything else, because capitalism. Those are the three groups that we see have the greatest likelihood of success in the online space, right? This is not to say that other people don't succeed, right? But those three groups I just listed, those are the folks with the greatest likelihood of success. And I think something that is giving people the ick is that these very real things are not being acknowledged and they're not being disclosed, right? When people are saying like, hey, I did this, I built this, you know, I can help you do it.
They are not saying those things that I just listed before that gave people advantages. And people don't hate advantages nearly as much as they hate undisclosed and unacknowledged advantages. I saw an account the other day and this woman was just like, just so you folks know, my whole body is basically from a knife.
She's like, yeah, I work out a lot and I eat well, but like my boobs and my butt, like I paid for them. And I was like, that's great. Like how you can't argue with that.
You're like, great transparency. Amazing. So what I listed as the three groups from before, right? White women, white men, and people who care about growth of their business and bank account and followers more than anything else.
Those are not the only factors clearly that contribute to someone's success, but they are hugely contributory in this space. And if a coach is going to be using their own success as social proof for the validity of the methodology that they're teaching, it needs to be stated. I'm going to use the launch that so many people were talking about.
If you don't know what it is, great. Don't worry about it. But Jessie Jean, she had a massive launch.
And if you want that same success, you need those exact same ingredients, all of them. And a big ingredient, a big part of that success, not the only part, but a big part is how she looks. It's a big part of shared identity.
Seth Godin has talked about this for years. People like us do things like this. There's a really good, I don't even know what it's called, it's a blog, it's like an ebook basically.
It's long, that I read. It's by Paul Scrivens and it's called How to Grow a Cult Like a White Woman. It's really good.
It's a sharp title, right? But one of the things he says in that ebook is, when the person selling looks like you and has what you want, half the selling is done before they even say a word. Yes. Again, when the person selling looks like you and has what you want, half the selling is done before they say a word.
Yes. I will call this, don't fucking come for me, or do, I don't really fucking care, I call it the Taylor Swift effect. If Taylor Swift is conventionally attractive enough that she gets attention, but not so conventionally attractive or outwardly talented, that she scares people off.
What is my example for this? My counterpoint? White women, y'all have Adele and you chose Taylor. Again, from Paul's ebook thing, that person is like me and has what I want, which makes me believe I can get it too. If you're too good, people don't believe that they can get it.
But, like I said earlier, looks are not the only thing that contribute to success or contribute to someone's willingness to buy. Another thing is what is being sold, which also holds true for the Jessie Jean example. Right? Fuck, if you don't use Jessie Jean, Marie Forleo, same shit.
B2B sales will always be easier than B2C and that needs to be disclosed. It needs to be acknowledged. Business to business, teaching other people how to make money, teaching other people how to make money on Instagram will always be easier than teaching people how to get rid of their knee pain.
B2B, teaching someone, teaching another business something, selling to another business, and in this case, you're teaching someone how to make money and you're making it seem so simple that they believe they can actually do it, that is way easier than B2C, business to consumer, where you're like, I'm going to help you with your knee pain, a.k.a. I'm going to sell you hard work that you have to do yourself. They're like, I'll keep my fucking knee pain. This isn't being acknowledged and that's whack.
And for folks who are getting the ick, typically these are the people looking from the outside in, they know that that's the case, they're just like, that doesn't apply for every kind of sale, especially for this is, we see people that have been in the online business space. That's why Colin Nichols was saying she's getting the ick, she's been in the online business space forever. When you've been in the online business, you know that this is the case, that these approaches, they don't necessarily hold true just across the board for this type of selling, or it's way harder.
You may have to still take some components of it for sure, but just acknowledging, hey, it is harder to do what I'm telling you to do, but with this demographic and with this thing that you are selling. It's not being acknowledged, folks are getting the ick because they know that it's not being acknowledged. Again, people don't hate advantages nearly as much as they hate undisclosed, unacknowledged advantages.
To further this point, and this is for my folks that have been in the game for a bit, think about ads. Nothing against ads, whatever, that's fine, but folks will do big launches, but they don't share their net revenue, just the gross revenue. And so you're like, all right, cool, you did a million dollar launch, but how much did you actually see? Did you do a million dollar launch, but you spent $999,000 on ads? Like, I don't know.
Disclose it. Acknowledge. And were you selling an offer that's teaching people how to make money online? And are you a white woman? Why not? Are you a white woman, unless you look like the demographic that you're selling to? All of these things matter.
I'm not trying to fault them, but acknowledging these things matter, and people get the ick because they're like, none of this is being disclosed, none of this is being acknowledged. A lot of these coaches are just really doubling down on, here's an outcome that you want, I look like you, or I look like someone who you should trust, we see men selling to women, unless I can tell you, and that's where the ick comes. I want to round this out, this episode out, with an action item, a little bit of discussion around business here, so as not to make this a giant expose complaint episode.
Business coaches, like I said earlier, they give you the ick because their actions go against your beliefs. Use that. Use that to guide you on what to do in your own business and how to show up.
Like I said before, shared identity is a big driver when it comes to someone deciding if they're going to purchase or not. Like I said, that was the quote from Paul Scrivens, he said, when the person selling looks like you and has what you want, half the selling is done before they say a word. It's not always all about looks, though, because we can take that a step further and say, when the person is like you and has what you want, half the selling is done before they say a word.
In this case, it's people like us do things like this. That is from Seth Godin. Another thing, understanding then, that another thing that contributes to this identity, this shared identity, are beliefs.
While you may not have the advantage of looking like your audience, you can bond with them over shared beliefs. And y'all know my whole shtick, more you, for this reason. So as it relates to shared belief, if you're listening to this episode, watching this episode, there's a good chance that what you believe is shared, is in fact shared by more people than you think.
But it's probably not as sexy or as flashy or as simple or as easy as what other coaches out there are saying, that they believe in what they do. The action item here, say that shit with your whole chest. Have something that you believe in and stand 10 toes down for it.
And then you got to stay in the game long enough, sharing enough of this content long enough. You got to stay in and share, stay in and share long enough so that people finally see themselves in you. And you come across their feed enough times, you get put on their radar enough times, they get tired of the other bullshit because they've tried it enough times.
They're like, yep, this is now what I believe. I've tried the other bullshit I know. And I get it.
I get it. Speaking of bullshit, part of the frustration with this is very much like you want to shake this person and be like, how the fuck do you not see that my approach is better and realistic and long lasting and actually going to get you the results that you want? And what that person is doing is fucking lies and bullshit. How do you not fucking see that? But we're dealing with humans.
I also, I also want to acknowledge how much it can actually cost you to share your beliefs, especially on social media, where reach is important and you share your beliefs on things and you get suppressed. I get it, right? Fuck Trump. Fuck this whole fucking bitch ass administration.
I be sharing things. I know that it suppresses me. It's not good.
Whatever. Fuck this shit. Fuck this shit.
I will never have to say like, I wish I had said more or wonder what, you know, what would I have done in that situation? I know what I would have done because that situation is happening right fucking now. I see you, by the way, Jen. I see you.
Thank you for everything that you share and how you show up on Instagram and thank you to your sidekick chicken. But if you are feeling this, you're like, all right, yeah, shared beliefs, but you're kind of at a loss here. Check out that resource that I shared earlier on how to start a cult like a white woman.
It's a very good read. It's a very good read and it has action items in it. So check it out.
So I know it's a little bit of a longer episode coming up on 30 minutes here. So thank you for sticking with it. The biggest takeaways, because it was a longer episode, I want to summarize this.
Three big takeaways for you. Number one, use your brain and trust your gut. Number two, remember that people don't hate advantages nearly as much as they hate undisclosed, unacknowledged advantages.
And number three, understand that shared beliefs can create that common ground that people are looking for when deciding whether or not to buy from someone, whether or not to trust someone. And then go share your beliefs a lot. All right.
All right. That, my friends, is all for today. I really love this one.
This was a really, really fun one. I like getting to talk about these kind of bigger issues. So if you have a topic, a request, a question, share it with me, 310-737-2345.
Send me a DM at the moment, Maestro. Clearly I read them and I would love to riff some more. All right.
As always, endlessly, endlessly, one more time, endlessly appreciative for every single one of you. Until next time, friends, Maestro out.
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How to start a cult like a white woman
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