[Transcript starts at 1:42]
Maestro: Hello, hello, hello, my podcast people and welcome back to another episode of my favorite podcast. Today we are coming at you with a guest episode, and believe it or not, I have a chiro on the podcast. You know, the, the battle goes back and I don't even know why it's there, but it's ah, PTs versus chiros. I got a chiro on the podcast today and it's kind of like a double whammy because he is the founder and president of smart Tools.
If y'all remember my background, I was one of the lead, the lead instructors for Rock Tape, so it was kind of a direct competitor there. And things have changed. Times have changed, and now I have the one and only Nick Colosi, the second fancy. So actually I should say Dr. Nick Colosi, the second.
Fancy guy. On from Smart Tools. I had reached out to him. I'm not gonna lie. Actually, I've used this episode to use this example in past episodes. I slid to his DMs and I was like, my guy, pitch incoming. Full transparency, you can tell me to fuck off if you want. It's totally fine. I got a busted knee.
I would love to rep some BFR, uh, a BFR unit. If that's cool, would love it. If not, that's totally fine. And we had conversation and I'm bringing him on today so we can talk about BFR, so we can talk about Smart Tools, so we can talk about the company, so we can talk about his background because y'all know it's always my goal to help you cut through the noise.
You have questions about things, you have questions about products, I wanna help you out. So I bring on the best, and that is what today is all about. So without further ado, welcome to the show, my new friend, Nick Colosi. Welcome.
Nick: How you doing? What's going on? Dr. Shante? Shante? I dunno which one you prefer.
Maestro: Call me doctor.
Nick: I haven't gone. Yeah, so I haven't gone by doctor in probably like five years. I haven't practiced, I haven't touched a patient in like five years. Um, yeah, the joke is that, you know, my director of education, Ed, doesn't allow me to touch patients. He's just like, just run the company and shut up.
Maestro: Do what you do best.
Nick: Uh, yeah.
Maestro: Love it.
Nick: Yeah. So, um, yeah, so I, I did, um, so I kind of, well, I'm based here in Cleveland, Ohio. Um, not exactly a hotbed of medical technology, uh, believe it or not. Uh, we have The Cleveland Clinic, right? Yeah. But, um, but yeah, not, not exactly a startup haven. Um, however, it is very favorable to startups. Uh, it is affordable living.
Uh, you gotta deal with the winters, but affordable living. Very cheap to get started. Space and everything's dirt cheap. Uh, so it's actually pretty ideal for startups. But, uh, but yeah, so I, uh, my background, I, I went to locally, I went to college here locally at Baldwin Wallace. Um, that was my, that was where I did my undergrad.
Um, I went, Into, uh, grad school. I went to chiro school in Chicago at National University. Uh, graduated there in 2013. Uh, practiced for about four years. Um, and, uh, and then I kind of just went full-time with Smart Tools. You know, I started Smart Tools while I was still in chiropractic shool.
Maestro: This blows my mind, man.
That's like,
Nick: Yeah, I know. It was towards the end and we were kind of like, you know, I was doing ART, I was doing DNS. I was doing, you know, PRI and all this stuff. And um, and I'm like, I just needed some tools and I don't wanna spend $2,000 on like, Graston Tools and like, take a course,
Maestro: Bazillion monies.
Nick: Bazillion dollars. I have no money. And I'm just like, I know I can make something. My dad and my uncle been in the steel business for like,
Maestro: there it is,
Nick: 30 years, you know, since like the seventies. So, I'm like, I think they can make, you know, I can make something. So, so yeah, that's kind of how it got started. You know, they, um, they, you know, we started making some tools, you know, these three piece set of tools, they weighed a ton.
Like they were solid stock of metal. And they were incredibly thick. We had no like, formal designs or anything. Um, and, um, I just, started selling to my like classmates for like a hundred bucks for like a three piece set. It was like my cost basically. Yeah. And uh, yeah, and it was kind of funny too cuz I, I made like five grand I think when I was in school selling these things. Like cash.
Maestro: Damn.
Nick: Yeah, I know. And I, I didn't have anything like to put the money in. I'm like, okay, I could put a backpack, but it didn't really fit.
Maestro: It's like under the bed
Nick: lunchbox. Yeah. I had like this standard process lunchbox, you know, that they give to everybody. And uh, and I took it to the bank. I look such like a drug dealer.
I swear to God. Yeah. And they're like, I'm like, I swear to God I'm not a drug dealer. They're like, we don't care. I'm like, what kinda bank is this? Um, so like, uh, yeah, so I deposit like 5K of like cash and I was just like, wow. That was bizarre. Yeah, so that's how we kinda got started.
Maestro: Back it up for a second because when I was reading, you know, your background and that you founded it during, uh, found it during school, that really stood out to me.
Where did the, I dunno. I'll call it the confidence, to start a business during school, where did that come from?
Nick: Yeah, I think it's just a chiro thing. Cuz chiros, they kind of like, you know, you graduate and then they like kick you out and they're like, okay, good luck. You know, like sink or swim.
Right. Um, there's really, I mean, some go into associates, but most start their own place. Or if they're an associate, they're not an associate for very long, by the numbers. Um, so there's kind of like an entrepreneurial spirit kind of ingrained.
Maestro: It really seems like that. That's one thing, you know, as a physical therapist, that's one thing that it always seemed like, but I couldn't tell cause I am not a, not a chiro.
It just felt very different. Where PTs come outta school and they're like, go work in a mill. There's never even talk about opening your own thing at all. They're like, you're gonna be poor. And it felt like chiros come out and they're like, we're gonna go make something. And I
Nick: Exactly.
Maestro: love this. So you make the tools. 5k. Actually, question for this. You Smart tools has a very sleek, modern, it's like a sexy marketing, sexy look to it.
Was that you?
Nick: Yeah, that was me. Yeah. I handle all the marketing, advertising. Yeah. Logo design. Yeah, that was all me. I have to own up to that one.
Maestro: I love this. You were just like, Hey, I want it to look like .X I got a vision for this. Like,
Nick: To be honest, Hyperice was a big inspiration for me.
Maestro: Yeah. Smart. So smart.
Nick: To be honest, you know. Our colors are similar, kind of, and you know, they're sleek.
Maestro: Exactly.
Nick: Um, I actually, we actually used the same PR company a few years ago to launch the 3.0 dude. So
Maestro: Smart. Um, if it ain't broke,
Nick: Yeah so, yeah.
Hey, yeah I don't have the hundreds of millions of dollars in sales that they got, but, uh,
Maestro: so, so smart.
Nick: Yeah. So, and you know, and we, when we came onto the market, you know, with the IASTM tools in 2014, um, Facebook advertising just was starting to get going. And honestly, I owe a lot to the growth of the company because I had nothing. You know, we didn't have, we, we bootstrapped. Our advertising budget was a joke. Like it was a joke. Uh, yeah. You're, you're talking a few hundred bucks a month here. Um, that's how we started. And, and, and back then it was like a couple cents a click. Yeah. For a link.
Maestro: It's a different, different time.
Nick: Yeah. It was crazy. And they were just getting the pixel started up and all that stuff. So it was kind of like the birth of that. And we just came out at a good time and, you know, and we were able to grow very organically on a bootstrap budget, um, and not take out any loans or anything.
Maestro: That's incredible.
Nick: Basically just be self-sufficient and just work off a profit. I mean, I didn't take any, you know, I didn't take any money the company for, for quite a few years, you know, we were just, you know, just reinvest everything.
Maestro: That's how it starts. Absolutely.
Nick: Yeah. That's how it starts. Right. And that was in 20, so that was in 2014.
Um, so then we rolled with ISTM for about three years or so with, you know, I brought on, uhEd LeCara for director of Education and then we kind of got an education going. And it was rock and roll for about a year or so. And then, you know, ISTM kind of hit a wall. Um, you know, a lot of knockoffs came out.
Right. A lot of knockoffs in China. You can go on Amazon cheap. Yeah. It was tough, right? It was, it was a tough time. And, um, around 2017 ish, and, you know, and I'll be, I'll be completely honest about that, you know? It's just with every business you, you, you're gonna have, you're gonna have ebbs and flows.
You're never gonna be like this. Right? It is
Maestro: if only
Nick: much, like that you know. So, um, yeah. So then we, uh, we got into BFR in 2018. Um, you know, Ed brought it to my attention. He's like, Hey, you know, my buddy down at, um, at uh, FC Dallas, he's been getting some crazy results with his MLS team. Um, and they're doing this thing called BFR.
He's like, I've never heard of it. Um, and I'm like, I've never heard of it. I have an exercise phys background. I've never heard of it. Um, and it was just kind of just coming on a little bit. Mm-hmm. And, and becoming more affordable. You know, at the time, you know, really the thing, only thing out there was like $6,000 units.
Maestro: Huge, huge units.
Nick: Huge thing. You know, you gotta put on the IV pole, you know? It's like, okay, we're not in the ER. You know, we're, it's just ridiculous. Um, big problem, you know? Obviously not attainable for most people. And our, our shtick, basically as a company was, we wanna be able to be, uh, be affordable to all clinicians, but also all patients.
Maestro: Love that.
Nick: Right? Cause a lot of times these patients want to buy the products that are being used in the clinic. Um, and you know, like patients can't always make it to the clinic.
Maestro: That. That. We have to accept that. At, at some point I had heard, uh, when I was in PT school, there was a, a co, a fellow student, um, she was second career.
She was a massage therapist first and she was second career. And she called physical therapists, or rather she said physical therapists have always been known in the massage therapy world as the keeper of the tools. And I was like, that's so true. And I love this kind of like democratization of tools and helping people.
It also makes your job easier. Like I know neither of us have treated in a minute, but like I want people to be taking care of themselves and having access to these things at home. And having the education and be able to do these things. And then they can come out to see 'em as much. Like they get better, a better outcomes.
So I love that that was, you know, front and center, top of mind for for the company. I absolutely love that.
Nick: And that was before Covid and the telehealth revolution, right? So now it's even more so we're just like, hey, a lot of, you know, some, some of these PTs having a shift, right? I mean, we're seeing a lot of it being done at home um, with telehealth and things like that. So they're gonna need these rehab products for home use. And we're already, you know, we're already talking with some large, I mean, we, we work with large PT clinic networks. They have thousand plus network and they have telehealth, um, you know, built into their, into their model.
And, um, we're, we want to be seamless into that model and, um, we're, we're gonna be piloting so a few markets and see how things work out there because we feel it could be very, very powerful rehab tool um, if you can do this at home three, four days a week.
Maestro: Nick, it is. So you folks listening, this is 100% why I brought Nick on. So if you follow me on the socials, or you're listening to the podcast, you know that last October I hurt my knee. I've always had none such great knees, uh, but hurt my knee last October, playing volleyball and then was doing rehab cuz that's what I do. Uh, and one of the issues is load tolerance has always been an issue for me.
My whole life definitely been an issue. And so, BFR, and we'll get into kinda the science and stuff behind it, but BFR is a phenomenal solution to this. Cause it's like suddenly, hey, we can help with help, uh, stave off atrophy, we can help with you actually getting stronger, growing your shit, getting some hypertrophy in there without significant load.
And I was like, sign me up. So I've actually been using it now- um, so now the time we're recording this, it's May. Uh, and I've been, I use it now about three days a week. Um, and I've been using it as part of my warmup. Um, it's a great way to get a great muscle pump, right? We get some blood flow in the area. We get it's staying in that area.
Which, if any of you are kind of in the body building space, two things. One, we know that BFR came from bodybuilders that we're just doing occlusion training. And this wrapping a band real tight around there, around their limbs. Yeah. Uh, but it's a phenomenal way if you're looking to, if you do have any kind of joint issues or anything like that to get a muscle pump first, do some of your, you know, you can do open chain, closed chain, whatever.
And then I can go onto some of the other lifts. But I can do a full lift, a full workout, without exposing myself to a ton of load. So if you have load precautions, if you have load limitations, whether it's post-op or you just kind of get a janky knee like me, this is an incredible, incredible solution. So why don't I pass it over to you, Nick.
Do you wanna get nerdy with us? And, and for those people that aren't familiar with BFR.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I, uh, I Ed's more on the science side. I'm more on the tech side, like development of the product and kind of just, okay, what's the customer's needs, right? And trying to fulfill those as the best as I can within the structure that we have.
So, um, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, BFR, everybody hears about a blood flow restriction training. What is it? What can it do for me? You know, why do I need it? Um, so blood flow restriction training, um, it started back in the sixties and seventies, uh, is debatable whether it started in Japan, whether, you know Arnold really popularized you know, just throwing on a strap and just chasing the pump, so to speak. Right. They're just looking to get a pump as best as possible. Um, and, uh, so yeah, th that, that's, that's how I kind of all started. Um, and then around 2012 2014 ish, it kind of got into the military a little bit, um, with more modified, um, operating room type of tourniquets.
Um, and then that kind of, kind of jumpstarted things a little bit from an education point of view. Um, and then more affordable products started to come on to market around 2016 2017. And then we came onto the market in 2018 when we felt that there was a need. Um, but yeah, it's basically a modified blood pressure cuff or a tourniquet rather. And, uh, the higher end ones like ours, they, they find the limb occlusion pressure, or, or LOP, and that's basically you're personalizing the b uh, the, the blood, um, the blood restriction to that muscle on a, on a person by person's basis. Cause everybody's gonna have a different occlusion pressure.
They're like, so for my arm it's 180, but you know, for, you know, my fiance, it might be 150 or 120. Um, so this, this adds to the safety profile because you know exactly how much you're occluding and it's quantifiable, especially in a patient setting, that you can scale them up or down depending on, you know, how they're progressing through their rehab.
So it's a very, very powerful tool and it is very objective, right? So we, we feel the way we're doing it should be, and is the gold standard for the clinic, as opposed to putting on a cuff, pumping it up with a hand pump to an arbitrary pressure and saying like, do you feel like you're a seven out of 10?
Well, that's highly, highly subjective. Like you get some meatheads and you're like, yeah, I'm fine. And then fully occluded and they're like rocking and rolling and then they, they pop a vein, you know? Um, or you get some daffodils, they're like, yeah, I'm a seven out of 10. And you're like, I haven't pumped it up.
Maestro: I'm like it's not on.
Nick: Exactly.
Maestro: I didn't pump it yet.
Nick: I didn't pump it yet. I didn't put the cuff on.
Maestro: I didn't pump it.
Nick: Like when you get a shot, you're like that. I'm like, ah, that's, that's just the alcohol wipe. You know? So, yeah. It, that's, so we, uh, that's, that's what we've been doing. You know, that's, and we, we built education around it because it's not taught in schools really. At least it's starting to, but at the time, it really was nowhere to be found.
Maestro: That, that part there. Questions. I, I got a few questions. Um, yeah. Just cuz you had just said, I, I know we'll get, we'll circle back again folks, but I know that PTs listening to this, the first thing is safety. Every, every PT thinks they're gonna get sued for some shit, even though totally our, you know, malpractice insurance is $1 because we don't get sued for shit.
But yeah. With this, um, can you dive into two parts here? I'm gonna be a bad host and ask two questions. First one is, were you nervous about the safety side of things and like, anything around that. Um, and then two, what is in place, and you can just repeat cuz you kinda answered it before, what's in place to, you know, help mitigate these safety concerns that providers have.
Nick: To answer your question, yes. Uh, safety concerns with any new product or any product period that is leaving the warehouse, there's always a safety concern. If I sold dumbbells, I'm like, oh my God, someone's gonna drop it on their head.
You know, like there's always gonna be a concern there. Um, but after actually looking at the research, we're just like, man, this is a highly, highly safe modality. There's been so little risk. Um, if they're properly screened, of course, and we stress proper screening. Like don't just go and buy it without getting clearance from a medical professional physician, somebody you know that is a medical professional, get clearance from them.
Get a physical, make sure you're healthy enough to do this. And a general rule thumb is if you're a healthy enough to do resistance training, you're healthy enough to do BFR. Okay? Um, now if you're post-op surgical a little bit different, you're gonna have some different, you might be overall healthy, yes.
But you, you, you got a swelled knee from an ACL uh, repair, right? So like there's certain protocols that follow as far as, you know, when's the swelling gonna get down? That's when you can start BFR, you know, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the incision has to heal to a certain extent to really start BFR. You can't just jump right into it, right?
Not like. So there, there's certain things you need to follow and we, you know, we teach that in our courses. We try to educate that as much as possible to our customers. Um, we don't really sell to anybody under 18. Um, True story. I had a, a 16 year old influencer with a, quite a bit of following, uh, wanting to rep the product.
I'm like, I can't.
Maestro: Two more years.
Nick: I can't, two more years, man. I can't. Like I get it. You have, you know, a lot of followers. Congratulations. It's awesome. You know, it's a lot of work. I get it. But I'm like, I can't in good conscience, have you rep product when I'm, I, I don't sell to your age group. You're rep and, and we're a medical based product.
I mean, that's, that's what we do. You know, we're, we're in over 5,000 clinics right now, plus a high-end fitness facilities and things like that, like Equinox and EXOS. EXOS is a great partner of ours. In Cleveland Clinic and Mayo, like all these places. I'm like, I just, you can't be a voice piece for the, for the product.
Um, so, yeah. Um, so yeah, so that's, um, you know, in 2018, um, we, we, we came onto the market, um, with, with, with that. Um, and it was basically a hand pump and a hand and a handheld doppler to find the LOP. That's what it was. Um, uh, what did it work? Yes, cuz that's, Kind of the gold standard really.
Uh, the handheld Doppler. Yeah. Uh, is it feas? Is it, uh, economical? Is it optimal? No. To this day, I can barely find it in my leg. To this day. So like, and, and I, and I created the damn thing, like, and I, I can't find my LOP in my leg. So like, it's not easy. Uh, and you needed two people. You couldn't do it on yourself.
Right.
Maestro: Got it. So there's limitations.
Nick: Yeah, exactly. So then, um, and then we came out, we started developing gen three in 2019, um, and we came out with it, uh, at CES in January of 2020. Crap timing. Right?
Maestro: Wow, okay. Yeah.
Nick: And, and, and add the insult to injury are, the pressure sensors that we use are the same ones that are used in ventilators.
Maestro: Oh my God.
Nick: So it was just like, just double whammy. Like
Maestro: No more product.
Nick: There's no, yeah. Then there was no pressure sensors. So we're like, it, it was, it was a crazy, crazy, crazy time. You know, we started taking pre-orders in January. We didn't ship the first product until October of 2020.
Maestro: I mean, people gotta understand. I'm sure they're upset. But like
Nick: At first they didn't. At, at first they were pissed.. Uh, but, uh, and I totally get it too. Like I, I'm like, I would be pissed too. But then as time wore on they were like, oh, wow, this Covid thing, it's really, it's real. It's affecting the economy in a big way, our supply chain in a big way, so that over time they were kind of understanding.
Maestro: Wow. Wow.
Nick: And then, you know, we, yeah, so we, we started shipping October, um, of 2020. We had some issues with it, and then we started shipping, um, we kind of, we had to go back to the drawing board, fix some things, and then, then April, 2021 was our real kind of, um, you know, watershed moment for us is when we're like, yeah, this product is just rock solid, this thing we're shipping out.
Um, and then it was kind of off to the races. Uh, uh, from then on. It was, it was, you know, we learned a lot through the process. It's probably good that we went through everything that we did. You'll learn way more from your mistakes. Than, and you would, and I don't wanna say from school, but you know, you learn a lot,
Maestro: but also, yes, in the trenches. Yes.
Nick: Exactly. Yeah. So I learned a lot to know what to look for in engineers, staff, you know, that's a big part. You have a good team around you. You can get a lot done.
Maestro: I love this. I love- this is one of the reasons I love bringing on the founders, bringing on the owners, the presidents of companies, because you're in it and you get to hear about the actual like company side of it, the business side of things.
With that, Nick, one of the things that you kind of, threw in there and I wanna dive into, in terms of mitigating the concern and addressing the safety, safety issues is education, right? Smart Tools has an, an education arm, an educational, educational arm to the business. And that comes, um, that you, you can take courses.
Can you tell us some more about that?
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. So our clinical courses, uh, they're clinical based, right? So it's not like, you know, uh, anybody can just go and take it. I mean, they can technically, but I mean, they're gonna be bored out of their mind. Yeah, it, it's, it's a lot of science, a lot of clinical cases. But we have live courses.
We have online on-demand courses, so they can just purchase it and just, take it and stop it, start it whenever they want. It's five hours. Uh, we do virtual courses as well. We're gonna start ramping that up, I believe probably next month. Uh, Ethan Kreiswirth
Maestro: There he is, my guy.
Nick: Yeah. Ethan, your guy. Ethan's teaching that one. Um, uh, so yeah. So the virtual's gonna be starting up. Um, and then we got level two starting up. Um, I did not write any of this material.
Maestro: Yeah, of course.
Nick: Uh, that's all ed LeCara. Uh, he's my director of education. He, he developed all the material. Um, you know, for us and, um, so he's been very integrative in, in, in the education and developing the education, digging through all the science and digging through all the studies.
Uh, there is so much out there. Um, you know, and we're, we're doing courses with, um, you know, big hospital systems. We do. And then small clinics. You know, we, we, we do the gamut. Military, you know, we do a ton with the military actually. Yeah, we, we do a quite a bit with the military.
Maestro: That's awesome.
It just makes sense though. I feel like, you know, RockTape was trying to get with them as well. They're just, there's red tape and things like that, but then they're also more willing to do things. Just, you know, thinking, you folks listening, I've brought Danny Matta on a bunch and uh, his background is military and just like they had direct access, like for always, so big difference between the model there and like what you can do and how things are implemented.
So that makes total sense that you're in that side of things. It's very cool. Very very Cool. I like that. So with the, with the courses, did you find that you did started doing a lot more, did Covid expedite the online side of things? Covid
Nick: Covid expedited the online things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were, we were doing probably close to 75 to 80 courses a year. Between 2018 and 2019, we did about 150 courses globally. Um, and then 2020 hit and just like slammed the brakes and then the consumer model kind of changed. Like they, they just did not like, used to be back in the day, two day courses. were kind of standard, right?
And then it was one day. Now it's like, maybe half day.
Maestro: Yep. Isn't that wild?
Nick: Yeah. It's like their behavior is just complete and it's fine, it's whatever. It's a, you gotta
Maestro: Gotta roll with it. Totally.
It is. It's totally, totally different. I saw that, you know, that's I, 2020 was when I was winding down. I was like, had made a decision that it was probably gonna, my last year with rock tape and Covid was like, here you go.
And just watching the consumer behavior, like you said, going from, we're going to be, we love and we love in person, we want two days, two eight hour courses, take two eight hour days. Yeah. Like first of all that's so long and then being like, okay, it's on Zoom for half the day. Maybe. That might be too long like that.
It's is so, so true. Who do you find is primarily using, uh oh I'll say consuming the courses now?
Nick: Um, yeah, I would say probably. 80 to 85%. PT, PTA. Yeah. Which majority. Um, and then the remaining athletic trainers.
Maestro: Where are the chiros? What, what are your people doing, Nick?
Nick: You know what? They, they don't do a lot of post-ops. So a lot of these, a lot of the BFR is being used post-op. So they don't see a lot demographic. Yeah. Like yeah. Chiros are more seeing the chronic stuff. Right. So they're, and a lot of times I'm, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm painting a broad paintbrush.
Right? But most of the time they're coming to the chiros if they're a last resort. If, if they're, you know, like, Hey, nothing has worked. I'm gonna try chiro. Maybe I was just a shitty chiro and that's what I saw. But I don't know. Uh, but bottom line that's what I saw. Like I saw golfers and then was right next to a country club and saw like, I tried everything. Let's see what you got. Ya know. Like, that's pretty much, that's pretty much what I got. Um, but uh, yeah, but yeah. So we primarily see that and, and like, and going back to the safety thing, that is like the number one thing. They're just like, what? This can't be safe.
You're restricting blood flow and oxygen to a muscle, can't be safe. And I'm like, you're only doing it for a very short amount of time.
Maestro: Not living like this.
Nick: Yeah. They think it's like all day. I'm like, when, how? It's like five minutes. And you want the thing off. It's not a the, and you can attest to this.
It's not a therapeutic spa like experience.
Maestro: It's unpleasant.
Nick: It's not meant for, it's unpleasant. And it's not meant to be therapeutic. It's not. No. You know, it's not an, not a massage.
Maestro: Which I is why I'm like, of course the PTs jumped on it cuz they're like, We- as a PT we sell the worst things, right?
We're like, you have to work. You have to actually do stuff. It's gonna take a long time. Oh, here's this unpleasant modality. Give it to me, let me, let me help my people with this thing.
Nick: It's, you know, there's a lot of skeptics too. And then you show 'em the research and they're like wow. There's a ton of research that it's highly effective and very safe, and I can get my patients loading way earlier than I normally would ever get them loading. They can get 'em in, get 'em out. I mean it
Maestro: It's a no-brainer.
Nick: Unless you're a milk. Like I don't wanna get em in, get 'em out. But like it gets 'em in loaded earlier and they can do it at home. They can, it just, it get them better, faster, and it's just
Maestro: It's a no-brainer. If you are listening to this episode and you are one of the chiros that does see people that are like, I've tried everything. Last ditch effort. This is actually a, it's a perfect tool for that because if you have someone coming in, chronic pain, deconditioned, doesn't wanna do things, is scared of lifting things.
This is actually the solution, right? So if we get nerdy for a hot second, folks, what we're looking at here is that we're gonna lean on like the metabolite or metabolic pathway to help induce these hyper hypertrophy changes as opposed to leaning on the pure mechanical tension model where you have to have high load or you're having a longer time under tension.
And that's uncomfortable, difficult for people. They can just be, have their ideas about it. They're scared about it, they, they just can't tolerate it, right? Maybe they don't have the tissue tolerance for that. We have other options, right? There is science behind this. So one, you can take a course and go learn about it.
Uh, two, definitely try it out yourself, but three, if you are, if that's the demographic that you're seeing, I, my whole goal, my whole stick with everything is to help people live their best life. One, as the provider, you can get better results, faster results. Easier results with this. On the flip side, if you are the consumer, you're the patient, you can get better results, faster results, easier results with this. Yes, there is some initial discomfort and things like that, but this is a viable solution for that demographic as well. You don't have to be some superstar athlete. You don't have to be some, you know, post-op patient. This can be acro- this is applicable across the board and there's just so many instances, um, and, and Smart Tools has made it, it's so easy to use folks.
If you just push like one button, push it a few times, you take them individualized, it gets the individualized pressures, which, which is what Nick had said, and I loved that. Um, everything's digital readout and, um, it's individualized for you.
What was that?
Nick: The new one's even easier.
Maestro: I was just, so I got my questions over here on the side and I was gonna say, can you talk about the different models that you got?
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. So we, we, so we had the 3.0 in 2020 and then we kind of, you know, went through that and that was like our first foray into electronics. Which was a learning experience. Um, and so that we sold the last of 3.0 in January. So I think we sold our last pro model in November. Then we sold our last consumer model in January, um, and we started pre-orders of the 4.0 that we've been working on for the, uh, better part of two years.
We were working on this, so it, it's, yeah, we, we started filing for patents about a year and a half ago. So we, we really started this a while ago in trying to get this down, you know? And, um, the biggest thing is LOP, you know, going back to LOP and limb occlusion pressure and personalizing the BFR experience per, per body part, you know?
Yes. It's not just per person, it's per limb. Cause that can be different.
Maestro: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Nick: Um, yeah, that a lot of people think it's like, oh, okay, my arm. No. Like it could be 180 here and like 140 here. Especially if you have atrophy.
Maestro: That part. That part.
Nick: Yeah, exactly. Yep. So we really want to, uh, you know, and not to mention if we're saying we're doing LOP, it better be accurate. So we actually did a validation study with Mayo, uh, last May. We got published by Mayo. Amazing. Uh, they did a validation study on our algorithms and it was accurate. We're only one of two to do that. Us and Owens, um, or the Delphi unit rather. Uh, that, um, that's, uh, validated for accuracy.
So that was very important for us.
Maestro: That's incredible.
Nick: Cause, yeah you know, cuz there's a lot of companies out there that'll say one thing that's fine and just, and it just doesn't. It doesn't show. You know, it, it doesn't, it's not accurate. So we really, we really go the extra mile. You know, we're listed with the FDA, we're validated for our accuracy.
You know, we really go the extra mile to make this as safe, as and effective as possible. And we get feedback from customers. That's the biggest thing. That's like, cause some customers are afraid to give us feedback. I'm like, Bring it on. Like, I need to know what you want so I can make it. You know, and we can, we can make the product better.
We can update the app, we can update the firmware, we can do whatever you want. Like, just let me know what you need. Um, I'm not in the trenches, right? I'm not. So, yeah, so the 3.0, um, we, like I said, we discontinued that and in January and then we came out the 4.0, we just started shipping this yesterday.
Maestro: Damn.
Nick: Yeah.
Maestro: Congrats.
Nick: Well, yeah, I, yeah. So, uh, uh, yesterday was busy overseeing everything. We got two trucks worth of, um, cases. Just the, the cases. We were waiting on, the damn cases, um, to, to ship these in.
Maestro: It's always something. Damn.
Nick: I know. Two big trucks worth, uh, came in yesterday. Uh, like full size trucks, uh, uh, for cases to ship these.
Uh, yeah. So now we, yeah, now we got like a backlog of, it's like a thousand some orders that we have backlogged.
It's a
Maestro: Good problem to have. It's a problem. Champagne problems like it's a problem .
Nick: It's a champagne problem, right? Yeah. We, we, we gotta, yeah. So now it's like, okay, now the real work starts. We, we really gotta get these out to customers and cuz they're, they're.
It's not, it's not like it's, um, it's not like a device that's like, okay, I'll get it. It's not like a water bottle. You know, like a lar or something. And it's like, okay, I'll get it when I get it. Like these people are like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm in the middle of rehab.
Maestro: Yes. That, that part, that part.
Nick: And this is the golden time. Yeah. And it, that's a lot of our customers and it's like, this is our golden time that we need, um, for our rehab. Uh, you know, if I wait any longer, the window has passed. You know, so, so we really are like, okay, yeah, I know. We understand. I'm really trying to get these out. The 4.0 is a massive leap.
Um, it is fully controlled by the app on, so we're on iOS and Google Play. Um, it's fully controlled. Um, you can do a lot with this. It's so much more advanced than the 3.0. You can do intermittent BFR, which we feel is gonna be huge going forward.
Maestro: Tell me more, Nick.
Nick: Um, Yeah, so we have three different modes on here.
So there's continuous BFR. Which is what we pretty much do with the 3.0. Right, so we, it's on inflate it and yeah, it's on. The air, it just stays in there. You exercise, you go about your business. The air doesn't, you don't deflate it in between sets or whatever, reps or whatever. So that's continuous BFR.
Um, and then there's uh, what's called a resting BFR. Which is you inflate it during your rest period and then you deflate it during your exercise period. That is a nice way to ease the patient into BFR. That's like, okay, they don't work out as it is, let alone throwing on a strap.
Inflating it, restricting their arterial. Yeah. Restricting the arterial flow and they're gonna exercise. It's just like that's a lot for them to, yeah. It's just, and then, and then if you, if they don't like it, you lose them.
Maestro: Totally. No. Buy and done, don't use it again.
Nick: There's no buy-in. Yep. You overcook that steak.
It's done. Can't put it back on the grill. So we, uh, resting BFR is a good way to integrate it. Um, and then there's what's called intermittent BFR, which is kind of like a nice in between where you're inflating it during your exercise period, and then you're deflating it during the rest period. Um, so that increases the safety profile. Cause you're not under, uh, and, and there's really no difference between that and continuous so far in the research that has shown that there's no massive difference. Um, so that that's really good. Cause it increased. I use it. I I prefer
Intermittent BFR personally.
Maestro: Okay. Yeah. I mean, and I can understand why.
Nick: Yeah. And you know what? I couldn't really do it before cause I was having a rotator cuff issue. And I've been, I was doing a lot of BFR, um, you know, with that. And I was finding myself just using intermittent all the time. And I was able to do that with a 4.0 because, you have two cuffs at the same time. And you can control both cuffs with the app at the same time, so you can inflate it and deflate it at the same time. Um, yeah. So obviously you don't do the LOP at the same time. But, once you find the pressures, you're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's really fast. I mean, this, this finds LOP in the arm in about 15 seconds.
Maestro: Wow.
Nick: That's how fast it's we, we, uh, yeah. We're able to, to up, we updated our algorithms. Yeah. We did a really, really happy the way it came out.
Maestro: That's awesome.
Nick: Um, Yeah, that's, yeah. So, so back, yeah. Functionally, yeah. You can use both cuffs at the same time for intermittent BFR and, um, you can, and it's, like I said, 20, 30 seconds, probably inflate it depending on the size of the cuff.
Um, it's much more time efficient.
Maestro: Amazing. What are the, um, I dunno, package options that you have for this? Like, is it arms and legs? Just legs? Just arms? How, what do you got?
Nick: Yeah. Common question. Great question. Common question. Um, we, we don't have set cuff sizes for the limbs cause everybody's different.
But we do have four different sizes and then they just measure their limb and then they match it to the sizing chart. So we have small, medium, and then we have large and XL. Uh, the small and medium are really for the arms. And then the, the large and XL are really for the legs.
Maestro: Got it.
Nick: Um, and, and, and a lot of people think they can get by with one size
Maestro: For both body parts?
Nick: For both upper and Yeah. I'm like, that's impossible. The only way that's possible, the only way is if like you were a bodybuilder and then like you just got massive atrophy.
Maestro: Yeah. You got some issues.
Nick: Leg or something. Like that's the only, only way that's remotely possible.
Maestro: There's no way. What?
Nick: Yeah. I, I, hey, some of these questions. Yeah. Uh, um, but yeah, no, I, yeah, they, um, that's, um, yeah, that's a common question. So we tell 'em, you know, make sure you measure your limb. Um, between the deltoid and bicep and then highest up on the hip, uh, on the leg.
Right. Um, that, that's, those are the only two spots you put the cuff. Uh, I see some people trying to put the cuff on the calf. I've seen that before. . Um, I'm like, it's the same plumbing, so
Maestro: Exactly. What are we doing?
Nick: It's all, it's all the same plumbing. If anything, you're putting yourself at risk
for nerve damage.
Maestro: Exactly, exactly. You're gonna have drop foot. What are you doing?
Nick: Exactly. Yeah. Or worse, right? Oh, good. I know. Like I didn't tell you to do that. So yeah. We, um, yeah, so it, but yeah, same spot. Um, yeah, as far as safety. Yeah. I mean, it, it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's incredible some of the results and some of the, the, the, um, uh, the reviews we get from customers, they'll just email me out the blue and be like, thank you so much.
You know, this product's been great for my rehab. Um, whether they're police officers, teachers, you know, I get, I get 'em all. I'll get the
gamut.
Maestro: No, this makes total sense. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal product. Can you talk to me a little bit about the app? Is there- yeah, what's the app like?
Nick: Um, so the app, it's, like I said, it's on, um, Google Play in iOS, and it's, uh, it just, everything that we do we're, I lo I love how Apple operates. It's very intuitive. It's very, everything is just, you don't have to think about it, you know? Um, so that's what we really wanna do with the app, was just walk the person along.
So we designed this for a non-clinician to operate. So it's so simple cuz some people think that they need to take a course in order to use it or operate it. I'm like, No, our courses are so you to know how to program it. Properly. But like the product, uh, no, no, it's, it's very, because there's, there's products out there that are so complicated that you, they spend like four hours of their course just knowing the product.
I'm like, that's insane. Um, the product should not be that difficult to do.
Maestro: That's a big barrier. That's when people are gonna actually use it wrong. That's a problem.
Nick: Uh, yes. Uh, so we do have safety mechanisms built in. Um, there's timers on there, so if we see an activity for a certain period of time, it shuts off. There's emergency release buttons both on the app and physical device. Um, uh, there's two different routes to go. So when you log into the app and download it for the first time, it'll ask you, are you a clinician or are you a, like non-health professional, basically, or, or an individual rather.
Uh, if you're an individual, you have to find LOP on each limb before you can manually select a pressure, right? So it, it knows what your LOP is and it knows that it, you'll never be able to exercise at full occlusion, uh, which is not safe. Um, it, you can only exercise at a certain percentage of that.
Maestro: Perfect, perfect.
Nick: Clinical side, totally different story. You have to sign a waiver or check off on a waiver, and agree and, and, and make sure, yeah, okay, so it's.
Maestro: I like it. Are there, um, I, I don't, I'm just gonna call it workouts. Are there workouts or kind of pro protocols, I guess that's the word I'm gonna use, inside of the app since there is this intermittent things like that.
Nick: Not yet. Yeah. We have a section in there it's called Smart Cuffs Academy. It's just not built out yet. So it's there. We just need to add it. We figured let's get the product out there cuz everybody wants it. And then, then we'll add that in. Um, like we're gonna add a couple more modes in.
We're gonna add a rep counter in a cadence counter. And then, um, almost like a, basically a metronome, basically. Um, and then, uh, a Smart Cuffs Academy, um, videos, sample exercises and things like that. Um, but yeah, a lot of people think that there's like special. Yeah. There's, they, a lot of people think there's special exercises too for BFR.
And I'm like, the beauty of BFR is you integrate into anything you already doing.
Maestro: This.
Nick: There's, there's, there's no special exercises for this. Right.
Maestro: I really, you folks listening, if you've been thinking about it, you've been wondering about it, this is why I'm doing this episode. So that you have, uh, a, a gateway into this and you can go and learn about this because it is, one of the things that Nick said earlier on was the original units, I don't know if you folks remember, literally we're on like the hospital polls and it was, it was a, a behemoth of a, of a product. And in terms of what you could do, you were limited because it was attached to these big ass poles and you had like hoses going everywhere. With what, with the tool, the cuff that Smart Tools has come out with, you don't have it, they literally have cut the wire. You don't have any of that.
They've cut the cord, they've cut the hoses, and so you can go and just be, um, on the stationary bike or on the assault bike while you have these on. You have a lot more freedom in terms of how you use it within your, your exercise regime, your, your rehab protocols, and I love that. Absolutely love that.
Um, within the courses, can you actually just break down- I'm cognizant of the time. I only have like a few more questions. Within the courses, can you break down us, can you break down the courses just a little bit in terms of what the structure looks like?
Nick: Yeah. So the courses, um, right now are kind of like a transitioning period because we have the old product and new. And so there's different modes with the new, so we, we have to integrate that into and, and update them too. There's new research coming out all the time, so we we're constantly trying to update the, the, the literature. Um, but yeah, we don't really, we go into the science yes. But it is not a course where we're like, okay, here's citation X, Y, and Z and then we're reading research for like five hours because people like start to really nod off. I mean, you know what I'm talking about.
Right? Of course. It's, yeah. So we, the first hour or two probably is, is, is more science and theory. And as to, so they just have a basis of what's kinda going on with BFR. So they just have a general idea. Um, then after that it's a lot of lab and it's a lot of clinical cases. Um, they, that the cases are probably the best ones.
Cuz they're like, okay, I see, you know, post-op ACL or, or, or, or rotator cuff. Common stuff. And we, we, we are like, okay, we have patient X. He is, you know, 22 year old sprinter, you know, tore his, you know, hamstring or tore his ACL, whatever. And then we go over like, okay, we did this week one, week two, week three, week four, and we break it out into weeks and we're like, okay, we did this much, this much pressure, uh, this many reps, this many sets, you know, at, you know, at what percentage one rep max, could it be 20, could be 30. One rep Max is tough to do when they're injured, so it's like, you know, like you're not gonna do one rep max if you just tore your bicep.
You know. Like, it's not possible. Uh, but, uh, but yeah, you kind of do a guesstimate there. But yeah, it, it's very structured. Um, a lot of lab. A lot of lab, a lot of people think, yeah. So we tell 'em, Hey guys, you guys gotta come in gym
Maestro: attire.
Are people super sore the next day, Nick?
Nick: Um, y yeah. Yeah.
They can be. Especially if they're deconditioned. Cuz they're doing higher.
Maestro: Yeah, exactly. You have to learn the thing like.
Nick: Yeah. You gotta get it to basically get volitional failure. And we, you know, 30 the rep set scheme of 30, 15, 15 and 15 usually gets you there. Uh, especially if you're at at least 50% LOP. You'll get there. You usually, usually want it off by then. Um, yeah. So there are some soreness.
Maestro: Yeah. I, and honestly, everyone listening to this, you and I both like as move people who are, you know, very movement heavy and movement centric and it's actually a great thing, I, I would think, that you go to a course and then you feel that. So one, you can feel what your patients, your clients might feel, but also you get buy-in cuz you're like, I feel it.
It does work. I am sore the next day. Like, yes, something happened. Not saying that you have to have soreness for things to happen, but you do get that, I can see that helping with getting the buy-in there. Um, so that makes sense. You folks listening, if you are looking for courses, we will link, um, we will link the show, uh, the website in the show notes and everything like that.
Um, I got a shout out to my guy, Ethan Kreiswirth. He's been on the podcast. Is like a really good friend of mine. He's teaching for Smart Tools. Um, so if you're looking for courses, especially if you're in the, uh, he's doing virtual, correct?
Nick: He's doing virtual and he's doing a lot of West Coast and Mountain West courses.
Maestro: So if you are in that geographical region, that's my boy. Those are the courses to take. It is a no brainer, just. Absolutely. Nick, we went over your background. We went over the history of Smart Tools. We went over the push into BFI BFR. We of course covered the safety cuz I already know the khaki brigade and like, well what is the studies and what's going on.
We went over that. We talked about the classes, um, the primary users, safety, things like that, different models, um, everything shipping now. Two more questions and then I'll let you go. One, I would love for you to reiterate cause you did say, and I just kinda want you to reiterate how these are different than other models that are, that are on the market.
Nick: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a couple, well, no, there's one other one, uh, that's similar, that's wireless app-based, um, that's on the market. Um, you know, we, we price ours more because the quality's better. You know, we, we use more quality materials. You know we use Neoprene. Nobody else is, uses Neoprene.
Um, you know, it's, it's antimicrobial. It's comfortable. It feels like a knee brace. It's just comfortable. Um, we use a custom bladder, our bla our, our air bladder. Custom bladder. Yeah. Air bladder. Uh, yeah, the air bladder that inflates, um, that's custom so that, that's custom for BFR. It, uh, it's almost like a gel. So when you inflate like a blood pressure cuff it's nylon against nylon. And when it inflates, it pinches at the corners. We use a type of material, so when it inflates, it's almost like a gel. So when it inflates it, it just, it goes uniformly around the limb.
There's no pinching. Um, the, the competitor does not do that. Um, and at the end of the day, ours is accurate and theirs isn't actually. There's actually failed a validation test. One of our competitors. Uh, so the upper extremity was fine, but for lower extremity, um, it was not accurate.
The authors are like, we can't recommend this, you know, and, um, and you know, that something I'm not gonna, yeah. I'm not gonna mention the company. It's out there. You know, but, you know, it, it's just, it just goes, you know, we just, we we're really, we're confident behind our product. You know, and we work hard to make sure it does what it says it does.
Um, yeah. So it's…
Maestro: This right here. Folks, this is why I brought Nick on. This is why I was looking into, when I was doing my research of like, who would I like to pitch and reach out to. It was because of this. And again, like I said earlier, my whole goal is to cut through the noise for you and just put the best products in front of you so you don't have to go searching around and looking at charts and things. It's right here, right? It's validated. Uh, they've gone through all of the rigamarole to make sure that it does what it says it does, and for the majority of my audience, I know there's a lot of PTs in here, I know we are all scared of the legal side of things, and so I brought someone in who is also concerned about that and has done the footwork to allay those concerns.
So this is why, to me, it's the Smart Tools Smart Cuffs or nothing. If you're looking to get into BFR, this is my only recommendation. Second to last question for you, Nick. And I don't know if you can answer this, but is there anything and also like, probably no, because you just put these out, but is there anything new coming down the pipeline?
What's Smart Tools doing?
Nick: Yeah, yeah. So my brain never stops like new, with new products and stuff. So like I already, we already filed for trademarks, uh, for the other two products.
Maestro: Look at this guy.
Nick: We filed for like, yeah, like a year ago.
Maestro: Okay, we got some new stuff coming.
Nick: Yeah. Some new stuff coming. Yeah. Uh, not BFR related whatsoever. Um, but it is for rehab. Um, it is for, it's, we're just constantly trying to fill needs, um, for, for rehab and, and patients too. You know, patients don't have the equipment for home use. They just don't . And, and there's only so much you can do with a TheraBand.
Maestro: Oh my goodness.
Nick: You know, uh, so we're, we're really, yeah. And, and, you know, strength training and is my, you know, is my really my background and passion and I really got into it in college and, you know, I played baseball, um, you know, through high throughout high school up until I was 19. So I, I was an athlete for a while.
And, and, and, you know, strength training and, and, and body building, all that sort stuff, really kind of really, you know, resonated with me and, uh, the discipline that it needed to, to, to, you know, to do all that. So I, I always wanted to make products for like, strength and , you know, and throughout the rehab side.
So yeah, I definitely, um, hoping to have the next product and it's big. It's a big, yeah, it's big. Um, it's gonna be a huge project.
Maestro: I love this.
Nick: Uh, Yeah. Um, probably in the next 16 to 18 months.
Maestro: Cool. So you folks heard it here. Keep an eye on the, uh, the Instagrams keep an eye out. And, uh, there's something new coming down the pipeline.
Like I said, we will drop, uh, the contact information, not contact, we'll drop the website and Instagram, um, in the show notes. Last thing, Nick, you had said before there's a discount code that if people wanna go and get that good good they can use. What is that?
Nick: Yes. Yeah, just, uh, very simple. SMART10. One zero. That's it. Smart one zero. That's that's, uh, take 10% off any of the, um, any of the Smart Cuffs, 4.0 models.
Maestro: Beautiful. We will draw that as well. And then my final question, Nick, I ask everyone that comes on, you've left us with so much. You've given us all this stuff, given us all the information.
My, I, I feel like I've achieved my goal. The reason I wanted you to come on here, to let the people hear about you. Hear from you. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave the people with?
Nick: Not really.
Maestro: That's good.
Nick: Not really. Like, we're just, you know, we're not a big corporation. Ya know we're a family run company. Um, you know, sometimes my fiance even helped assemble. Like, we're not this huge company that's, you know, is, you know, I, I don't have 300 employees. I don't have a marketing team. I don't have an advertising team. Um, I do outsource it, you know? Or not outsource it, rather, but I have, um, like, uh, independent contractors.
So, um, but they meet with me. So like, I'm the one telling them what to do and they kinda just, you know, they go and do it. Um, but yeah, I mean, you, I learned early on there's this one thing I, it needs to be said. I learned very on, if you want things done right, sometimes you just gotta do it yourself.
Maestro: Nick, you're speaking my language.
Nick: It's just, it's just that simple.
Maestro: Speaking my language, literally speaking my language. I love it.
Nick: I mean, just from a product side of things, like if you want something done right, not like I'm an engineer, but I'm like, if you want something done right, you really have to tell them exactly what you want. You, cuz nobody knows your product, your customers better than you, than you.
Maestro: He's in it, folks, you hear this. You his, I know that that statement right there resonated with you in terms of if you want the outcome that you want, oftentimes it's gotta be you, you in the trenches, you doing the thing, you dictating that you, you know, literally getting your hands dirty and staying with it.
And I love that, Nick. That makes me happy. It's not, uh, some guy that's like, you know, living in, I don't know, Bora Bora, just being like, oh, I'm just raking in the money here. Like, I love this. He's in it. He's invested. He is interested in it. You see the excitement. If you're watching this on YouTube, you see the excitement that Nick had when he was talking like, oh, there's a new product coming.
I'm like, this man's excited.
Nick: Nothing gets me jacked up like new product. Swear to God.
Maestro: This man's excited. Nick, this has been phenomenal. I am so appreciative of your time. I'm so appreciative you sent the unit over. Just, this is phenomenal, and like I said, my whole goal was just to get you in front of my people and put the best in front of the best.
So thank you for all that you do. Thank you for being so willing to, uh, I dunno, do the thing. I'm like, this guy's like, uh, I'm gonna make a company now. I'm gonna make, uh, some tools. I'm gonna make, uh, smart cuffs. I love it. Thank you for being so willing to do this and help the people and bring these products to people.
And uh, yeah, this was great. I really, really appreciate you.
Nick: Awesome. I appreciate you having me on, ya know this is great. So it's, it's always good when I can talk about my company.
Maestro: Yeah. I love it. You folks listening, thank you. I know you could have been doing anything and you chose to listen to us, and for that we are both endlessly, endlessly, endlessly appreciative.
No specific ask or anything like that today. Remember we got a give. If you want to get yourself a pair of that good, good. A pair of those smart cuffs, use the code SMART10, save yourself some monies. We will drop all the things in the show notes. If you wanna help us out, do me solid then and share this episode with somebody who you think it could help.
All right, that's all I got for you. Until the next time, friends, Nick Colosi and Maestro, out.
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