Full Transcript: MOTM #517: Business & Bullshit with My Bestie – Part 2: Standing Out In the Space

[Transcript starts at 2:01]

Maestro: Maestro and JillFit here and welcome back to business and bullshit. No, you're not in the wrong place. If you're on FitbizU, right place. If you're at Maestro and the mic, right place. This is part two of our four part four part episode series that we're doing entitled business and bullshit with my bestie.

Last week, we talked about starting in the online space. What does it actually take? Can everyone do this? Spoiler, Jill said, no, and I agree. And today we have a new topic for you, which is going to be what it takes to actually stand out, right? Cause we talked about getting started, kind of what, what you got to do, but how do you actually make it? How do you stand out? Is the space crowded? Is the space saturated? We have many thoughts on this, and maybe we'll share some bullshit. Maybe a story. Maybe a little underboob story. I don't know. But, anything that you want to kick us off with, Jill, before I jump into the episode?

JillFit: Yes. So, actually, I do, and I'm super excited, and the first episode was, uh, was so fun, and we should just do this all the time. Actually, let us know, you guys. Send Maestro a DM or send me a DM at JillFit and let me know if we should do a business and bullshit standing show. We'll, we'll not take the place of Maestro on the mic.

We'll not take the place of FitBizU, but should we do a third show? Just all the content and all the places all the time. Let us know if we should do a standalone show. Um, actually I do want to plug, we are getting ready to launch our Legacy program. For those of you who have listened to this show for a while, you've heard me talk about Legacy.

Legacy is the mentormind six month coaching program that Maestro and I do together starting in January, and we are opening applications later this month. So if you're interested in getting on the interest list and getting the early details, you can go to Jillfitfree.com/legacy-waitlist that's jillfitfree.com/legacy-waitlist. And we'll also put it in the show notes. No obligation to be on that, but it is for those who are already in that intermediate place of online business. There's no specific metrics that we're looking at in terms of like, you don't need to have a huge following, you don't need to making a million dollars, but there are some things that we are specifically looking for in those applications to make sure that it's going to be a good fit and that we can help you as well.

So if you want to get the details, or you're just curious, go ahead and go to that link and we'll, uh, we'll send you guys more details when we get closer. 

Maestro: That was amazing. That was a commercial. That was so good. It just sounded like, and I'm like, she has a whole URL. I'm over here like, Courtney, can you put a link in the show notes?

JillFit: It's an easy one. 

Maestro: It's an easy one. Jill and I be operating different, different, different there, different there. All right. Let's jump on in. I have no idea how long this episode is going to be this time, folks. Because Jill and I could literally talk just forever and ever, but we are kind of… 

JillFit: But we have four episodes.

We do have four episodes, which I'm excited about. Actually, I'm pumped for this episode because I do think this is one of your zones of genius. And this is, and I'll just like say this, and I think I said this in the last episode, but I want to say it again here. I feel like when it comes to this thing, the niching down, the who are you within the space, what are you the best at, what's your zone of genius?

I feel like you are so good at seeing someone's… or their zone of genius because they oftentimes can't see it, especially if you're like just getting started and maybe you came from the gym or the clinic and chances are you've worked with a ton of different types of people. You're like, well, I worked with a 19 year old kid and a postpartum mom and a 70 year old man.

And so you kind of come in online thinking that you can work with all of those people. And even though you actually can probably get all of those people results, that's no way to niche down. And I will just plug the maestro meeting. If you guys want to know and have someone actually look at your shit, make sure you go to a and get a maestro meeting with, or just join legacy because we do that there as well.

But let Shanté look at your stuff, um, and pick that up. But we're going to get into it today. 

Maestro: Uh, I think that you nailed it there. We do see a lot of people coming from the, from, from in person, which is what I always champion. I'm like the best and fastest way to start an online business is in person.

And so people come from that in person space where you are very much limited by who can walk through your door. But suddenly you're online and you have access to a whole lot more people. And I've stayed, I've stayed, I stay saying it. The person that becomes the hip flexor helper, you're going to break the internet and be a millionaire.

I tell you a hamstring helper, hip flexor healer, those people are fucked up. You want to go viral, do posts on those things, but it's because you're actually able to, to niche down and be more specific with the problem that you solve, which for me is actually something important to differentiate. So I think then we, when we start talking about niching down oftentimes folks really get into the demographics of things and then maybe if they're like trying to go next level they go into like the psychographics of the person that they're trying to help, which is valuable. Very much. But oftentimes what we really want to look at first and foremost is the problem that we solve.

Then we can say who we solve it for. And sometimes equal with who we solve it for is how we solve it. Right. I'm thinking of someone that we both work with and she's in your SNS right now is Anna, Anna Hartman. And it's not so much who she works with, yes, it's going to be, uh, we'll say healthcare providers and we're looking at like physical therapists and ATs and things like that, but it's how she solves the problem and how she teaches them and the methodology and the approach that is really going to be niching her down.

So one of the things I want to flip over to you and I kind of was like, maybe let me see if Jill can do this. Cause it would be cool. And if you're like, no, I don't want to do that, then we don't have to. But one of my first exposures to like a tactical approach to niching down was your niche and pitch. I think it would be cool if you just kind of run the people through that.

Like give them a fun fucking homework right now. Let them run through what that looks like or but however you want to present it, because I know it's a podcast, but I think that'd be helpful. 

JillFit: Sure. Yeah. So we actually have a tool that we use called niche and pitch, which is really useful for not only figuring out who exactly you're going to work with, but who you're not going to work with, which I actually think is even more important online.

Because again, you come in and I'm seeing this right now with my beginner students in FBA, so many of them are so scared of turning away business because they don't have any business yet. Right? So they're like, well, I can't niche down. If I just say that I help people with weight loss. What if someone wants to build muscle or I don't want to say that I only work with women because what if there's that random guy who wants to work with me?

So there's, and I do want to validate that. That's really normal. But I would say that's probably a little bit more of a beginner issue is this feeling of scarcity. Like if I, if I declare one niche that all of a sudden I'm going to have no business because even this niche is probably even too niched.

And I will say we have someone in Legacy right now, shout out to Joy Black, who has an incredible niche. She's a, um, she does postpartum training for mountain climbers. Like, so when you hear us say that, and she's just crushed, has had her biggest launch ever. And so when you hear us say that, you're probably like, wow, is there anyone even in that niche?

But she's the best at it. So she owns the complete niche. And it was, I think Gary Vee, who I heard say this years ago, he was like, you can have 0, 0, 1 percent of a large pond, or you can have 95 percent of a small pond. And that's really what you want to think about when you're thinking about your niche.

So you can kind of visualize when we talk about the niche and pitch exercise, I'm a visual learner. So I was like, seeing something or writing it down or having a list of some kind. So if you want to do this exercise yourself, you can take out a piece of paper and just create like a box essentially, and then create four quadrants in the box.

And then we want to think about the top row, like the two boxes on top are going to be niche. And then the bottom two are going to be your pitch or the thing that you do or the problem you solve. So top left hand quadrant, that's going to be your ideal client. So this typically, I'll just start with like high level.

Typically, we can talk about it. This is not the case. Chances are for 90 percent of people who are trying to find their niche, it's going to be a previous version of you. It's going to be something that you've, and we can kind of caveat this, especially with healthcare professionals and stuff. Cause I'm sure, you know, if you're a PT or movement professional, you're You're not, you know, maybe you've never had an ACL tear, but you see people in the clinic who do.

So maybe there's a little bit of, but I know for me, I work in the like weight loss fitness space. A lot of people come online and want to be online coaches because they had their own transformation. And so ask yourself like, what was my own transformation? That's a good place to start. Not, it won't, it won't be the right thing for everybody, but it's a great place to begin to be like, okay.

Absolutely. Is, am I trying to help someone overcome the same thing I overcame? Now, it doesn't have to be like a massive weight loss or this huge transformation story, but maybe you didn't start lifting weights until you were in your forties and you're like, now I want to work with women 40 plus to get them stronger and, and you know, beat osteoporosis and all this kind of stuff.

So asking yourself, like, what did I overcome? Even if it was a small transformation, there's plenty of room for that. So that would be like ideal client, top left hand quadrant of that. Um, those four boxes, you want to write out two things here. So number one, you do need to know their current pains or problems.

So this is like what they would say to you if they, if you were asking them in person, like, Hey, what's the biggest, when you, when you, if you want to get healthy, you want to lose weight, you want to get stronger, whatever it is. You want to get consistent. What's your biggest struggle right now? What's your biggest hangup?

So you want to know specifically what pain and or problem they're experiencing in their words. The second thing you need to know about your ideal client is you need to know where they want to go. So what would be their ideal success? What word, what's their desired outcome? You know, cause part of what you're when Shanté and I talk about marketing, you have to paint the picture of what's possible for people.

They also oftentimes don't know, but you ask them like, Hey, if you had to wave a magic wand and you could have any outcome you wanted in the next. 12 weeks, six months, what would it be? What do they say? They will tell you exactly what they want. Another question I do love is what's your motivation for wanting to lose weight.

They'll tell you, they'll be like, I want to be able to run off my kids. I want to be able to, you know, get up the stair, go hiking without any issue. Like they'll tell you why they want that. And so that's typically going to be the problem. It's not that they want to lose weight. It's that they want to be able to hike and not have any issues or whatever it is.

So you need to know those two things, current pains and problems and desired outcomes. Top left hand quadrant. That's, that's probably the, probably like the hardest one that's going to take you probably the most time. Do you have anything to add to that in terms of like that ideal client? 

Maestro: No, I just want to highlight, I don't need to add, but I just want to highlight what kind of reiterate what Jill said about their motivation.

Like that's the next level thing to be thinking about. And I love that Jill brought that up and this is why Jill is the goat, but that's a, that is a big thing there. I have some questions for you after this, but let's take them through it. And then. I'll ask you the things. Cool. 

JillFit: So that's probably going to be the hardest one.

And it's going to probably take you the most iterations to like get to the very bottom of what that ideal client is going to be. Then, then top right hand quadrant is actually going to be simple. It's going to be, it's simple. Maybe it's not easy, but it's who you don't work with. Like who you're just not going to work with online.

So, you know, when we launched legacy, first thing Shanté asked me, one of the first things she said, do we want this to be women only? Yeah, no dudes, right? It's not that dudes aren't fine, but it's just no guys. So that would go in that top right hand quadrant for us. No men, right? It could be something like I help people with online business.

I've, I've certainly had people come to me and say like, Hey, I'm a gym owner. Can you help me? And I'm like, I don't do that. Not that I can't maybe get you a couple steps. I go to the gym. I worked in gyms. But at the end of the day, I'm not the best person to do that. So you have to draw a line in the sand.

This is what's going to be when I say it's, it's simple, but not easy. That's what I mean. Like, you're going to feel like you're cutting off options, but you have to say like, put a line in the sand. I'm not working with that person. Then bottom left hand quadrant. Now we get into the problems you solve. So bottom left hand quadrant is what you're the absolute.

Best at what transformation are the absolute best at facilitating. So I say transformation because we are in the transformation business, right? People are always paying for an outcome. They're paying for result. So that bottom left hand quadrant is like, if your ideal client came to you and said like, Hey, I'm ready.

Like. Like dude, rocket ship time. What are, what's the thing that you absolutely know you could get the result for someone, your ideal client came to you. If someone comes to me and says, Hey, Jill, I'm new to online coaching. I want to start a business. I'm like, dude, let's fucking go. Right. Like no, no questions, but bottom right hand quadrant, let's just say I've had people say this to me too.

I want to start a clothing line or I want to start an athleisure where I want to start a supplement line. And I'm like, yes, it's under the umbrella of wellness, but like. I don't know how to do that. And so I'll, so bottom right hand quadrant is just what you're not helping people with. So if you think about like, for example, let's say your personal trainer, group fitness instructor, again, you have a show of evidence that you have helped All of these different kinds of people, but online, you really have to pick your ideal client.

So that's going to mean turning off some of these opportunities, turning off some of these people who are just, you're just not the best at. Someone could come to me and say, Hey, Jill, I want to train for. A power lifting competition. And I'm like, cool. I like lifting weights, but I'm not the best at that, right?

It's a disservice and a waste of time for me to take on that person and for them to give me money. Cause there's someone out there who's doing power lifting way better than I ever could. And so it's important that you recognize the transformation you're the best at, and then the ones that you could help with, but it's, it's actually just going to be a waste of both your time and theirs because you're not the best person to help them do that.

Maestro: I have a few questions, but I'm just gonna hit this one right in the, in the face. Let's do it. When it comes to marketing, and I'm really thinking about the kind of weight loss kind of space, 'cause I've been thrust into that, largely come from working with you and kinda the people that come in through that, 'cause we don't talk about that in totally physical therapy. It's like, that's not a thing. This is not, and I'm like, you're talking about food obsession. Yeah. We don't talk about that. Believe it or not, we don't talk about that. Uh, I see in the space people that are scared to talk about weight loss because the pendulum has swung so fucking far that if you want to lose weight, you're a bad person, or if you want to help people lose weight, then you're fat phobic or just all this stuff around there and I talked to people that are coaches and they're just like, dude, I want to people get healthy.

Like, if weight loss is part of it, it's part of it. If it's not, it's not. But like, they're scared to even, yeah. Say anything about it, or kind of draw that line in the sand or even approach that subject. And so they're kind of trying to, I don't want to use the word manipulate, but it's all that's coming to word.

They're kind of trying to manipulate the goals that their client has, so that it kind of fits what they feel comfortable doing. And they're like, Oh, you want to like, make peace with this thing. And like, yes, maybe at some point, but the person like where they're at and what they know, the language they know, the problem they know they have is over here.

How do you. Address that, Jill. 

JillFit: So this is, I love this because I do feel like that the pendulum is swinging back a little bit the other way, because I actually had a question written down for you, which was like, I have a lot of people who say, can I only make money if I'm selling weight loss? So I see a lot of the opposite.

Mm-hmm. , which is, I see both, I see a lot of people who are like, I'm anti-D diet and I don't wanna even talk about weight loss, and I just wanna be part of it, and I get it. And then I, I see other people who's like, actually not that great at helping people lose weight. Mm-hmm. , they go, mm, . People only want to lose weight.

So do I have to do weight loss? I'm not the best at that, or I don't really feel comfortable with that, but I have to say weight loss to get business. And so I think this is a fine line. I will say one of the huge mistakes I see in niching down is too many people trying to sell something that someone wants after the transformation.

So for example, like, you know, my personal story was I was a competitor, a figure competitor. I was a fitness model and I was a yo yo dieter. And so for me, I was always like a normal weight, but I would balloon up and down, like 20, 30 pounds multiple times per year because I had these massive rebounds and then these strict dieting, whatever.

So, you know, after doing that for like eight, 10 years, I really had a terrible relationship with food. But I would never have said that when I was in that place, I would never have said like, I need to help have someone help me have a better relationship with food. Right. But now, because I've overcome that and I now eat moderately and mindfully and all that kind of stuff.

Now I could say I help people have a better relationship with food. But the person who's in that pain and that problem in that moment isn't saying that. And so I see people trying to sell an outcome that no one is asking for. Now, does someone want to have a good relationship with food after the fact, to your point?

Sure. But they don't know they need that. They're like, wait, I just like, if you had asked, if you had said that to me back when I was in that like food obsession, I just need to lose weight. I'm not lean enough. I wouldn't be able to hear that. Just eat mindfully. Just eat moderately. I need someone to be like.

You know, look, I'm going to help you lose 10 pounds and do it safely and keep it off for good or whatever. Like, that's what I was looking for in that moment. So you have to go back and maybe jog your memory about what previous you was saying. Or if you've talked to these people when they come into the gym or they come into the clinic, What language are they using?

They're not saying stuff like, I want to feel more confident in my skin, or I want to have a better relationship with food, or I want to trust myself around food. They're not saying that. We say that on the other side of it. So I think it's okay to repeat back what someone just says to you instead of being like, I know you said weight loss, but what you really mean is you want to be more confident in your skin, don't you?

And you're like, Maybe, but after the transformation, we say that we're like mindset is everything, but the person who wants to lose 20 pounds isn't saying they need to change in mindset. So I think it's important to speak the language and not try to make it different. So if someone wants weight loss, deliver weight loss, and then start Trojan horsing some of the other stuff that you believe is important, like mindset and habit change and liking yourself and all of these amazing other benefits, but liking yourself, people not paying for that.

Right? They're not paying for it to like themselves. They're paying because they think if they lose 20 pounds, then they're going to like themselves better. So sell what they want and then give them what they need.

Maestro: Big time. Big time. What's your, what's your take on that? I think that it's, it's exactly what you were speaking about in the beginning, which is Jill's saying sell weight loss if that's what you sell and that's what you're good at and that's what you want to sell, right?

So this is for the person that's like, I want to sell this. I'm good at it, but I'm scared to sell it because somebody is going to come and say that I'm fatphobic. 

JillFit: Yeah. I didn't talk about that. I'd love to hear your take on that. 

Maestro: Sell whatever the fuck you sell. Like. People need help. That's what, I watch PTs do it.

So the, uh, I don't know, the, the complimentary PT equivalent would be what? Yes, thank you. The PT equivalent is the PT that's just fucking saying big words because they're thinking that the khaki brigade and the khaki clan is gonna come after them. So they're like, got these posts that people don't even know what the fuck they're saying.

They're like citing studies and I'm like Joe, next door, debilitating back pain and has no idea you exist because you're over here debating with Stan about this bullshit. Same, same. Whoever it is that you help, focus on helping them. I get, maybe you'll get some chirping and you'll get some stuff, but guess what?

That doesn't, at the end of the day, doesn't fucking matter. You have to be looking at. Who are you trying to help? I get it. I want to validate it. I'm talking with Jill. Jill's the nicest lady ever. And so she's going to like validate that the process is difficult. But at the end of the day, if you want to help people, go fucking help them and have the blinders on.

So whether it's in the weight loss side of things or you're on the PT side of things, so remember your peers don't pay your bills. So. Focus on your shit and do what you came to do. 

JillFit: Here's what I think about too. I think about being a client Imagine being a client and go into a gym walk it into a gym and I want to hire a personal trainer You sit down in the sales conversation and person says what your goal and then you say well I really would like to lose like 10 to 20 pounds and they go I know you think that's what you want, but that's not really what you want.

That's kind of what we're doing online. Exactly. Right. And look, I believe that there's a, the ability, and this is why I love social media. It's free. We can educate people on why fat weight loss or fat loss isn't the only thing on the menu, right? Do that. Use your free content to educate people on the other things that you think is amazing so they can open their eyes.

I always say that most people just think weight loss is the only thing on the menu. So that's typically what they say. I think with our free content, we can actually start, uh, implanting ideas of other amazing health outcomes. But if someone comes to you and says, don't fight them on it, right? They say, I want to lose weight.

You don't fight me on them. Like, you know, take them on, help them do the thing they want while also educating them on all the other amazing benefits that come with getting healthier. So I was thinking from the client perspective, right? And I'm just like, that's weird that we would do that to a client.

Maestro: It's like, no, like I really thinking about where people are at and Jill, Jill pointed this out earlier. Like you're oftentimes just steeped in the stuff, you know, you're surrounded by people that know the same stuff as you or at that same level as you, and you don't realize where if you're going to the average person, you probably don't realize where they actually are.

Right. You might be like, so if there's, if you're a newer, you're like, maybe so like, kind of divorced from things. Go to the airport and you'll see where the average person is. Do it at an amusement park. 

JillFit: No, go to jury duty. That's where I was. I was like, okay, this is society. It was wild. Go to a mall. 

Maestro: Yo, the universe was just like, oh, Jill, you don't want to fucking respond to this.

Now you're going to have jury duty. 

JillFit: I know. I'm so mad. I didn't listen to someone. Someone told me that you can't, nothing can happen because unless it's certified, they can't like 

Maestro: keep sending that shit.

JillFit: I know. And then the, the, the red letters get bigger and bigger on the, and it's like, you're going to go to jail.

And it's like, just send it back. Just respond. So then of course I responded and I had to be there for like all week.

Maestro: I was like, damn. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. Uh, with, I lost my train of thought a little bit, but I had another point that I wanted to make just about the, cause you brought it up just about the, the, what you're selling, who you're selling it to, and just basically being like, no, this, this isn't your goal.

I know what I was going to say. So the, the realtor that we worked with. Like, we become very good friends with her and we text and that's where the average person is at. And she's messaging me. She wants to lose, like, I don't know, something like five pounds. Like, and I, I see all this stuff that people in my ecosystem are putting on our ecosystem are putting out and like how, like, it's wild to just be like spending all your time and energy over these five pounds.

But like, if that's where the person's at. Then we can't just be like, no. So when she messaged me, I can't just be like, no, that's dumb. Like go do this other thing. That's that ain't it. Not that I'm trying to train her or anything like that. I've actually been pushing her towards our clients and be like, Hey, here's a resource.

Oh, you want to do that? Here's- that's not what I fucking do, but here's a resource. Oh, you want to walk? Okay, let's go for a walk. We have to meet people where they're at. And it's within the parameters of solving the problem that you want to solve. So one of the things that Jill had asked earlier was like, or brought up was, you know, clients, I do get this as well. Clients saying, well, I know weight loss sells. Like, do I have to sell that? Is that the only way that I can make money? No. And this goes across the board, right? I love what Jill said about people not knowing what's on the menu. That's one thing. And two, we talked about this in the last episode and it'll probably come up every episode that we ever do is just taking radical responsibility for our decisions, right?

We know that certain things are just going to be, I always use the word more like universally accepted or like more universal. Nothing is 100 percent universal, but we know that certain things are more popular than other things. If I say the word, um, entertainment. Most people think funny. Entertainment is subjective, but if I say it, they're like, funny.

Because certain things just are like, accepted as like, kind of the standard for things. They're just more popular with it. Yes, that may be the case with weight loss, but it doesn't mean that other things don't sell. And if that's not what you fucking do, then don't do that. Figure out what it is that you are the best at, and then I need you to go all in.

Jill was saying earlier, like, this is one of the things I do. This is probably my favorite thing to do, is look at someone and look at their content and talk to them. And all the calls that I do for this are like one on one. And I used to sit and hear people's stories. And like, as much as, I say I don't like Zoom, but I will say the benefit of Zoom is that I can see people's face.

And I can see when they light up and they're talking about something. And I'm like, that's the thing. You can do it but this thing that you just said to me, that is the thing. And we need to go all in the radical responsibility part comes from like, yeah, it may be slower because not as many people know about it or it's not as quote unquote popular.

That's okay. Because one of the reasons that Jill and I named the program legacy is because you're not here to build a flash in the pan success business. You're here to build an actual legacy, this thing that's sustainable and. It has longevity to it. And the only way that you're going to do that is behind something that you truly believe in and that is truly in alignment with you.

So yeah, certain things may not sell as well. Like it would be a lot easier if I just told people you're going to make 10, 000 and you're going to make it in five seconds. And like social media is really easy. You don't have to post that much and you can just like hire someone and you can just hire everything out.

But one, that's also, well, that's a lie, uh, but two, that's not how I sell. And that's not what I sell from day one. I've been like, this is going to be a really long time and you might not actually make it, but it's going to be, you can make it worth it. I think that comes from the kind of the PT background where I'm like, you have to work.

It's not always going to be fun, but you're going to get ultimately get that outcome if you put in the work and the effort. 

JillFit: So, you know, I think, and I love that. I think this comes down to also people having to like learn business, right? So for example, if you're listening to this and you're a practitioner or you're a trainer or you're a coach of some kind, coaches love coaching.

We love to diagnose. We love to prescribe. We like, someone comes to me, like, I'll give you an example. If someone came to me, it was like, ah, I've just been having massive headaches. I'm not going to like, as a coach, I'm thinking, well, maybe you're dehydrated. Have you tried LMNT? Are you doing that? Like I'm automatically coaching them up, right?

Versus sticking with the symptom. The symptom is a headache. So am I speaking to the headache or am I already diagnosing and speaking like five steps ahead? You know, I think about health and fitness space now, I don't know if she's that relevant anymore, but you know, who, like when I asked my mom, Right.

You ask your realtor, right? These are just regular people, not in our space. I asked my mom, like, you know, who do you, who do you know in health and fitness? Like, do you know any people? Do you follow any people? You know what she says? Jillian Michaels. 

Maestro: I was like Jillian, 

JillFit: Jillian Michaels, right? And fitness people hate Jillian Michaels.

They're like, she doesn't even have a certification. Y'all, I don't know. Her books are at fucking Walmart, right? Her books are at Target, her like video DVD, whatever it is. So I think one thing to think about now, it doesn't mean you have to quote unquote sell out or you have to do anything that doesn't feel good to you, but that should tell you that if you want to have a successful business, you have to appeal to more than just your peers.

It can't just be the language. I see all this. I see it all the time and it's fine. It's interesting, I guess, but I see a lot of personal trainers being like weight loss and fat loss are not the same thing. Do the average person cares that they're not the same thing? No, they're just going, look, look, I got this thing right here.

I get they're grabbing their midsection going. I just need to get this off. I don't know what that is, but I don't care if it's fat loss or weight loss or whatever. I just need to lose 10 pounds by my vacation. Right? So again, I know that this is hard because we love the science and we love getting tactical and like, I love how you call the khaki brigade, but like, we love impressing our peers.

I don't know. You can either impress your peers or make money. Like I think you have to at some point decide who am I here to help and be okay with some of the fallout. If one of your peers, like you called it chirping, like, I don't know, like at the end of the day, I think if you want your peers to respect you, do have a successful business and you're not going to have successful business by trying to appeal to your peers unless you're going, you know, B2B.

Maestro: That big time. I think about Perry Nickleston. And if you folks listening to this, you're in the. The really kind of the, um, the, we'll say the movement space and the kind of PT space, you know, who Perry is, he stopped chasing pain and he gets all the chirping. I thank him probably once a month. I text him and I'm like, thank you for taking the arrows.

But I watch him as he, I will say that he gets the respect from some people, some people are just going to be stank all the time, but he gets the respect because yes, we can say it's because he has a successful business and we can look at the financial side, but it's also because people want to help people.

And so he's helping people. He has that audience. He has those eyes and yes, that will bring with it some jealousy and you'll get some of that shit starting off. But I watch as the stuff he does, cause he's ahead of the curve. People are like, Oh, what's that poo poo. And he's like, dude, tunnel vision. This helps people.

It's helping my people and that's what I'm focused on. Like, yeah, I know people are going to say stuff. And then lo and behold, a year later, a year and a half later, people are doing the same thing. They're like, Oh, this thing kind of works. Right? So big message there that Jill's saying as well is who are you trying to help?

I thought I'm probably going to pull that one part for the teaser, Jill. You're speaking about diagnosing. Instead of just treating, like addressing the symptoms, really listening to that symptoms and and speaking to those. That is fucking huge. Fucking huge. 

JillFit: Coaches want to coach. And that's what I mean by like, at some point you have to decide, am I in my, do I have my coaching hat on or do I have my marketing hat on?

Which is, you know, part of what, like, look, when you guys join Legacy or you, you know, work with Shanté or myself, you come in with. Your expertise. I'm not going to teach you how to help someone count macros like I can, but that's not what I do. I help put the marketing and sales on top of the thing that you're already good at.

And so whatever your IP is, this is a question that comes up quite a bit is like, especially with weight loss, right? Do you, is it out of your integrity to help someone in business who wants to do weight loss? And I'm like, no, I don't care what, I mean, sure. Like, I don't know if maybe someone is like a racist or something like, yeah, maybe I'm not gonna help them grow their business.

Right. But like for the most part, I'm like nothing wrong with macro accounting, nothing wrong with moderation, nothing wrong with keto inherently. Right. Like I'm, I'm just going to help someone build their business. I'm not in managing the mode of like what they're teaching. Right. And so I think you have to ask yourself, um, do I have my coaching hat on, or do I have my marketer hat on? And am I trying to help someone right now? Or am I trying to, you know, bring in sales, right? Because once you have the sales, and I heard Brendon Burchard say this years ago, he said, I know you care about the message, right? He's like, you care about the message.

You want to get the message out. You want to make an impact. You want to reach people. He's like, but the money sustains the message. Remember, like, if you're not bringing in dollars, you got to go get a job somewhere else and you're not gonna have the time to post on social to help people. So the money is important because the money helps sustain the message.

So yeah, you do want to think about, yes, I want to help people, but I also want to get paid well for it. And As you start helping more people, to your point about Perry, now you have a show of evidence that like, Hey, I don't care if this is in the literature or not. I have a group of people who this worked for.

And I think that's why more beginners to online coaching are the most scared of getting called out because they don't have the reps yet. They don't have the evidence that they're good. If someone asked you and me and pooh poohed something that we, that we were teaching about business, I'd be like, dude, that's fine.

But like, I've seen it work a million times. Like, I just know it works. So like. Whatever, someone else, Hormozi says it differently or someone else says it differently, that's fine. But I know for a fact it works. You've seen it work. And so I think you do have to at some point decide, you know, am I, am I going to willing to learn business skills?

Cause I need the money to send the message. 

Maestro: Jill, what, one of the things you're talking about here is kind of- one I'm going to say, and then one I have a question, this is again, I'll make the plug for starting in person and having reps already. Like there's so much value. Yes, you can start online and let's like start from scratch and be like, I'm trying to do this thing.

Radical responsibility. It's going to take longer because you don't have the confidence because you don't have the fucking reps. Like people will talk about imposter syndrome and I'm like, you should have, it should feel like, you know, good yet, because you're not good yet, like, like it's not imposter syndrome yet.

You haven't helped anybody. But if you have helped people and this is where, you know, I think about to, to me starting. When I came into the online space, I was already five years into a PT and I was fucking good being a PT. Like I could get people better. So I came on and I was like, I'm just going to share what I'm doing.

Cause like, I know this gets results. It wasn't like I was day one brand brand new. And like, I don't know, I'm just sharing. I'm like, no, this shit actually works and here, here's what I'm doing. So there's a lot to be said about taking the things that you have done and the experience that you have and really leaning on that, uh, and sharing that.

My question for you, Jillian, is we're talking about stealing the language of our people. So helpful. It's the easiest way to write things. It's easier to attract things. What if no one's saying anything to you? How do you get this language? How do we, what is our first step? Cause it's a question I get asked as well.

JillFit: Yeah, I mean, you're probably better to answer this because I feel like you definitely, um, one of your strengths is getting your people to talk back to you, even a small audience to engage with you. I would, I, I'm going to, I'm actually going to turn it back on you because I would love if you talked about, because here's the thing you could, I mean, I'll give you like the, the, the business side, which is like do market research, right.

Ask people locally, you know, like put on free, like free calls, free consults, like. Stuff like that. Like, look, you can, like, I, I asked my mom all the time. I'm like, have you ever heard of this thing? And she's like, I have no idea what that is. And I'm like, okay, like I. So you could gather from people in your life where they're at or what they think, what their mentality is.

But I understand you might be talking more about like, if I put a question box up in my stories or a poll or whatever. And I'm like, 

Maestro: phenomenal. 

JillFit: But I think. And this speaks to, I think what you're so good at is people only want to talk back to you if they feel connected to you, right? If they feel connected and they're not going to feel connected if you're constantly asking them to ask them, answer a bunch of questions.

That's not, that's not connection building. That's not relationship building, right? That's asking, that's taking. So how do you first give to your audience? How do you first connect to your audience? Because I know for a fact, if you put up a question box and you're like, Hey, you guys, I'm really interested in your take on this.

You'll get hundreds of people responding to that because they care about you. So I think before you are like, I need people to respond back, like you have to care about your audience. You have to care about forming relationships, even a handful of relationships online. And I don't think that you form relationships by asking people questions about their struggles.

I think you form relationships from, from the connection things and the things that you teach when you teach branding. Don't do that. 

Maestro: I would encourage you folks, if you didn't write it down, if you're driving, like then go back to this. But what Jill said before is actually very, very good and very helpful.

And from Jill's all about tactics, like very, very tactical there of just doing things locally, having free calls. I did free calls before I put it out on social media, wherever you wherever you can, wherever you have an eyes that already trust you and you have that relationship side of things, have free calls.

I have talked people just for free to see here what they're fucking saying. I'm not gonna sell you nothing. I'm like, What's going on? And that's the end of the call. 

JillFit: You can even call it an interview, right? You can even call it an interview. You can say like, Hey, would you mind if I just like interviewed you about it?

Like you don't have to prepare anything. Just like five minutes. I'll just ask you some questions and then get them on zoom and then just record it. That's all you need to do is like, Hey, and people will want to help you if you're genuinely asking for a favor. People want to be helpful. So you can't just say like.

You can't just throw up a box on Instagram stories and assume people like I never get and I'm like, but you don't frame it up in a way that makes anyone care about actually helping you not because they don't like you. Right. But because they're just scrolling and they're doing other shit and they're just tapping through.

So if you give them a little context about what you're doing and how it's going to help you and make it a sincere. Sincere, genuine ask you just that shift alone will get so many more people responding to your polls and answering your questions, especially if you put like a time limit on it. Like one thing I'll always say is like, Hey, you guys.

This is going to take you 20 seconds, like 10 seconds, one, like one single sentence. Like I try and lower the barrier to entry for the audience. So number one, they see it as a genuine favor to me. Like they're actually helping me. People want to be helpful. And number two, I'm like, I don't put in five different question boxes that are all open ended.

There's a whole science. There's a book called Ask by Ryan Levesque, which if you've ever taken like a quiz online, this is kind of like the mentality, the psychology behind taking a quiz is. The first couple of questions in a quiz are like primer questions. They're not even like these open ended questions.

They're like, they're like name, gender, date of birth, because there's a psychology to building momentum to then asking an open ended question. So for example, if I was going to have you ask some, like put some polls in your, or questions Instagram, I would probably have like maybe two polls that are quick taps, yes or no, answers first.

And also I will say with polls, I see a lot of people, and maybe you do too, this fucking cracks me up, but I see a lot of people being like, do you binge eat? Yes or no? Dude, no one's going to cop to that shit, right? No one is going to be like, I binge eat. So it can't be a question where there's clearly a better answer, right?

Cause all those motherfuckers who are binging are going to be like, I'm not answering this question, right? So you're not going to, so instead, if you're going to have an A or B answer, it needs, they both need to be, so instead you might say. Hey, if you're someone who overeats at times, do you typically choose salty things or sweet things?

Cause that just assumes we all binge, we all overeat sometimes. Which do you tend to reach for more, sweets or salty? So then it's like, okay, these are both neutral. Like there's a neutrality to this poll. So I would say you probably want to start with a couple like fast hitters like that, A or B. There's no judgment about it.

I always write that in. There's like no, no right answer, no judgment. And then if you want to have an open ended question about like, what's your biggest struggle or whatever, people now already feel pot committed, right? They already feel it's like the, what's it called? It's um, the sunk cost fallacy. Like they're already committed.

They're already invested. They've already answered two of the polls. They're much more likely to finish out the last question because they're already building momentum. 

Maestro: I love this. A few things to say, one, we're going to back it up to Ask by Ryan Levesque, it's actually a very short book. Y'all know I don't be like, I'm reading that much.

JillFit: Just for the first half is the only one you really need. The first half is the psychology behind it. 

Maestro: And it's like a very small book, so like, write it down, do the thing. The notes I just took with that is like, do the thing. I'm not going to lie. I get fucking annoyed. People go crazy. They go, you say a book name and they get all excited and they don't, don't do fucking do shit with it.

Like they buy it and they read it and they don't, I'm like, go ask then. Reading the book is not the thing. You have to like, go and do something with it. Right. Well, someone said the other day, transformation like begins with implementation, so you have to like, you have to like, do the thing. I just read the fucking book.

All right. So go ahead. We'll link in the show notes if you want. But then actually like go and ask and we'll just be like, I read it. Great. 

JillFit: So how would you, I'm like, let's back it up before people even ask anything. Right. How do they build a captive audience to actually, that people actually want to, like, I know when you ask a question, people want to tell you what they think.

So it's not hard, but how do you get your audience to, to be excited to tell you what they think? 

Maestro: So I think one of the things Jill gave the answer to this before as part of it is giving people the gift of going second and it's really nice if they're going after you. So one of the examples I use for this is if you ever want like a kid you're speaking with a little kid and you want them to first of all, it's random here, but this is business and bullshit little kids love me.

I don't really love little kids They're fine. But like little kids and animals. I think it's my face like my teeth. They're like, you look like a caricature They love me little kids each wanting to touch my teeth. It's very weird. It's a thing. Lex has seen it And she's like I like didn't really know but she's like now I know I believe you and I'm like, yeah It's a thing 

JillFit: young girls.

Love me like like like 9 through 12 Love me. Yeah. 

Maestro: No And then jill pays them to like go do races so she could just watch 

JillFit: Exactly. I put em through an obstacle course. You want me to babysit your kids 100 burpees for time? 

Maestro: The best. Business and bullshit needs to happen, folks. Write in to us. Let us know if you want this to be a full time thing.

But if you are hanging out with any of these little kids and you're trying to make conversation and you want them, want to know their name, the way that you get a kid to say their name is you tell them your name first. You say, Hey. I'm Shanté. I honestly get, like, I need, I do, like, get to their level. I'm like, I'm Shanté.

I like doing X, Y, Z, or just say, I'm Shanté. What's your name? They're far more likely to say their name than if you're like, what's your name? Right? So same, same goes for online. And Jill slipped it in there with the question, uh, about binging. Like if you binge, um, and kind of making it seem like we all do this, is it salt to your sweet?

So, not getting any kind of blame and giving them the gift of going second. Letting them know it's okay, right? Cause if you go back, think about humans and wanting to belong, that's huge. So when we are looking to build this audience, you have to lead with your own life. You have to, it's not like I'm just broadcasting and then, you know, never commenting or saying anything ever, but the things that you're preaching, the message that you're trying to teach, you have to be living it and you have to be sharing it, that is number one.

And then when people so show interest, you show interest. Write back. So people kind of, I get you're online for business. This is why I said it a million times, it's the nicest lady ever. It starts with relationships. And if things are purely transactional, you're gonna, you're gonna struggle with business.

So if we take from the relational side of things and we're okay that, you know, maybe this person never buys from us, that's okay. Just build a relationship. It's, it's all right. The person messages you, they respond to something, respond back. The best thing about starting online is that your audience is small.

So we take advantage of that because you can respond to every single comment. You can respond to every single DM that you get. And it's not because you're not receiving is because you actually, you asked for them. Although calls to action are very helpful. It's a, this is how the population works, right?

Some people just like to talk. Some people are early adopters and. They'll take a chance on responding because you're sharing your life, right? I've, I've said time and time again, as it relates to social media and relates to Instagram, stories are the most important part of the platform because we are in the business of relationships, right?

In the business of trust. Stories are relatable. Because it's just your life when you're teaching stuff, which I want you to do. Cause businesses are built on solution to problems when you're teaching stuff in the feed, people don't have much to say. Cause ideally you're like a zillion steps ahead of them.

You're you're solving their problem, but they're like, what are they gonna say? Thank you. Maybe. Meanwhile, you go into your stories and you're washing dishes and they're like, you have a sink. It looks like my sink, we're the same. I'm going to message you about that sink and you start the relationship with that.

So I think the big thing there is in terms of building this audience is lead from the front, give people the gift of going second, share your life and then relate with people. You'll have those people at some point like this thing. They like the thing you're wearing. They talk, they respond to this thing.

Right back to them and literally starts with one person and then the next person. And we're grateful for every single interaction that we have. You know, I'll borrow Jill's phrase and I want to validate that. Yeah, the numbers are wild now. So, you know, 2023 and people have like a zillion followers and you can see like people having a lot of, a lot of comments, whether they're real or not.

I don't know because people can see that they don't value when they're just starting out the one comment and the one DM that they get. But those things are very valuable. So we'd start with that of relating with that person. And then from there, the things grow. 

JillFit: I love that. And you know, it reminded me of, um, our last FBA launch.

We had this gal who was, she was like so excited, like, can't wait to join FBA. FBA is my more beginner business program. And she was like, I want to, I want to start right away. Is there anything I can do? And I thought she was a shoo in. Right. So we, we did a sales call and she, like, we're talking through it and I kind of tell her a little bit of the program, whatever.

And then open cart. She doesn't enroll. So I'm like, Hey, remember when you were like 100 percent in last week or whatever it was. And then she did another sales call with someone on my team. And at the end of the call, he said, my teammate said, um, She's going to go with another business coach who's cheaper than you and is giving way more It's a way more one on one because he's a newer business coach And I was like this is great because this is exactly what we're talking about. When you are just getting started you can give someone so much more time so much more of your attention, you know, FBA is a group coaching program so if someone wants one on one coaching with me, they're not that like FBA is not a good fit.

So she can get something cheaper now. I don't know that he has the experience and probably doesn't have, you know, like, but she's like, cool. I- here's someone who can give me a lot more one on one, a lot more FaceTime and good on that guy. Cause he used it to his advantage. He's like, you can join Jill's program, that is a group program and maybe get a couple of minutes of her time here and there. Or you can work with me and get all this like FaceTime. You're one of like five clients I have, right? Like, and so that's, and I can't blame her for that because I'm like, that's not an advantage I have at this point, but that is an advantage that someone who's just getting started has use that to your advantage.

Put your marketing head on and be like, Hey, you know, one of the best things about my client load right now is I actually keep it less than 10 clients, which means you're going to get a ton of FaceTime for me. So I think there are so many benefits to. Really speaking to the kind of time and attention you can give people, especially in the beginning.

And that's sort of related to what you were saying about getting back to everyone's DMS and things like that. 

Maestro: You have the time. I love that example. I fucking love that example. Jill, I'm looking at the time. I want to switch this a little bit and ask you about standing out. So kind of what we were talking about with this, this first part was kind of inbound marketing, putting content out there, attracting people.

And then we're looking to really build relationships with them. What was that? 

JillFit: Speaking their language. 

Maestro: Yeah. Speaking their language, stealing their language, speaking to this person, getting them to eventually speak to you at some, at some point in time, whenever, whenever that is, what about. So we talked about this is kind of that was a niching downside of things.

What about kind of intentionally looking to stand out, right? Because we have people that will come in, people are in the space and they're just like, I just feel that the market's too saturated. I feel like I don't stand out. I feel like my message sounds the same as, as everyone else. What do we say to this?

JillFit: Yeah. I mean, and, and I think you probably agree with me on this. You're never going to stand out based on your credential. Like you're just never going to be like, you can't have the, like, that's never going to be. But I think for a lot of people, they do have this imposter syndrome because they're like, I don't have enough certifications.

I don't have the top credential. I'm not qualified enough. That's never how you're going to set yourself apart. You know, I look at, and also you're never going to set yourself apart by having the biggest following, you know? So for example, I'm very aware of some of my new students have a couple hundred followers and they know everyone who they're following and who's following them because it's friends, family acquaintances.

And for them, they think that's a negative because they go, well, why would someone work with me when someone else is also doing macros who has a million followers? Why wouldn't they go that person been doing it longer? They're obviously more successful. I'm like, because those 200 people following you don't have a relationship with that person.

Like, and we forget this sometimes when a potential client is following you. They're probably, if they're not in your space, they're not in the health fitness movement space. They're probably only following like three fitness people. And you're one of the three, they're not following all the people you're following.

So I do think it is oftentimes because we are in an echo chamber where we're only following people who are saying the same thing. So it feels like everyone's saying the same thing. You know, it's interesting. Like sometimes I'll see my, my partners, like he's on Instagram or something and I see his explore tab and it's like so different than mine.

It's like. You know, it's all dogs and surfing and stuff like that. And I'm like, Oh, like there are other, it's like, you know, TikTok has a different channels. It's kind of like Instagram has a different channels and we're all just locked on the same channel. Your ideal client is not following the 2000 fitness people you're following.

They want to connect with you because they have a relationship with you. And this can be confusing at the beginning because you're like, a guy I went to high school with wants to work with me and I don't really work with dudes, but like, and he's kind of creepy and I don't know, we haven't talked for 20 years.

And it's like, but he just knows you, right? He doesn't know anyone else and he needs to lose weight. So he's like, well, you're the one that I went to high school with. We haven't talked in 20 years, but I trust you because I went to school with you. And so, so much of these dial movers, the things that will set you apart have nothing to do with you being the smartest, being the leanest, uh, having the top credential.

It's going to be you being you. And I do, and I, you, you, I want to, I want to toss it to you because you talk about this so well. I think sometimes people have a hard time showcasing who they are, those, those knowables or those things because they go, well, it's not safe. I need to be like so and so because they're successful.

So I'll give you guys an example, like if you follow someone like a Ryan Holiday or I don't know some of these people who are like big into reading books, you might think to yourself, well, I just need to read books. And I need to show the books I'm reading because someone else who is successful reads a lot of books when in actuality you fucking hate books.

Like I love so much that you are like very anti, like you, you're like, you love to learn, but you're like, look, I'm not fucking read that book. It's too much. Yeah. But there's a level of confidence, right? Cause that's almost, that's like anti, um, it's like, uh, what's it called? Like, you know, kind of just like, it's an unpopular opinion, kind of counterculture, right?

We're supposed to be like reading and like, and some people just, you're just like, I'm not gonna do that. But I think that people know that about you. Because you're going against the grain. And so, I think you need to know yourself, and this is something you talk about so well, is like, you have to know yourself first, in order to know how to share yourself.

Maestro: That, that's so much and you know, I'm going to tie in what something that Jill always says. This is how we live folks. Just be like, remember you said that? And then you said that. 

JillFit: I'm like, well, you're the best at that. 

Maestro: You talk about that. Jill talks about how starting an online business really will just hold up a mirror and encourages, forces, expedites growth and so for the person that doesn't know how to share themselves or talk about themselves. I get that. I get it. Especially, I can't say it's me personally that I get it, but I can understand that conceptually especially if you've been socialized seem female because you probably never been asked what the fuck you like and what you want to be doing. Like it's a thing I understand, but if you're like, I want to start this business, well, now's the time that we're going to learn.

And again, I'll circle back to fucking love Instagram folks because of this. It's such an incredible tool and it's free. Even if you're trying to grow a business, you will learn about yourself. You will become confident by doing the thing. You can build this body of work. You can create this set of data, if you will, that you can go back and start looking at it.

Right? So if you're like, I don't know how to share myself. I don't know what I like. Post everything, post your whole fucking day, post all of the things. And you're going to see patterns. You're going to see from a, from a business perspective, you're going to see what you like talking about and actually what you're the best at talking about and what the problem you're the best at solving from a kind of lifestyle perspective, people will pick for you.

That's one of the coolest parts. And you could kind of shift things if you're like, Oh, but I don't want them to pick that. I need to, I need to get my shit together. That's, that's bad that they're sending me that. But people will pick for you. They're going to pick your knowables. They're going to pick the things that they're like.

People will just be associating me with garbage trucks. Folks, I don't like garbage trucks, they're disgusting. I don't correct people, but it is the recycling truck. Very different. The garbage truck is disgusting, but the recycling truck has a mechanical arm. I put it in my stories and now people associate that with me.

But this just comes down to in terms of figuring out how you want to share yourself and how to share yourself. It literally comes down to sharing yourself. Stories are a phenomenal, phenomenal way to do that. And I get it. It can be hard, but like, we could sit here and try and go into the fucking psychology of it, of why it's hard.

Or you could just like, go do it because you're like, I want this outcome. I want to build a business. I want to go help people. Okay, well then here's one of the steps. Figure out how to learn, learn how to be okay sharing yourself, which starts with sharing yourself. You do a little bit, you don't have to put your kids in it.

You get to be in full control of how much you share and you just go one, one little bit at a time. 

JillFit: You know, what's interesting about that is when I, when people are scared to share some of this stuff, right? We have all these sensitivities around it. We have people think I'm trying to be somebody and I'm like, but you are trying to be somebody.

You're trying to be someone successful. You're trying to be someone who's making money online. But but there is this feeling of like does people think I think I'm a coach. And I'm like but you are. But when you break it down, like I've had people say to me Well, I'm just scared to do that or you know, I'll say well, let's talk about that.

Let's say you do it. What could someone possibly say and we like literally go through the whole thing. So I had this gal I was coaching her on one of our FBA calls and she was scared to post and I go, well, what are you scared of? Let's go through it. Like, what could someone possibly say? She goes that the caption is too long.

And I was like, okay, so let's, so let's say someone said that, right? That's a lot of stuff you just wrote. What would you say? And it was just like, yeah, it is. There's some, there's just something so powerful. And I think you're so good at this. And I think this is why people are attracted to you is you own it.

You know, and that, to me, that energy of just fucking owning it, like, I don't, like, I'm not gonna read that fucking book, right? Like, just owning it, right? Yeah, I'm gonna write a long ass caption. Read it or don't. Read it or don't. Read it or don't, right? Or someone's gonna say, um, you know, oh, she's, she thinks she's… You know, trying to be an influencer. And I'm like, well, yeah, I am because I want to make money. You're just in this make money. I'm like, I am though, right? Like I want to help people too. So I think there's something, I think at a high level, we talk about this. Like the, the message overall is yes.

Understand yourself. It takes, you know, quizzes, personal, all of the things you love, personality tests, astrology, whatever, to be like, that's me. But then, own it. Own it. At the end of the day, I always like going to worst case scenario, because I'm like, I'm about to post this. What's someone going to potentially say or do?

And I'm like, if that happened, what would be my response? I'd be like, thumbs up. I'd be like, cool. Sorry, bro. I don't know. Like, it's not nearly as scary as we think it is. But for some reason, we don't think about it. We just go, I'm scared. I can't do that. We don't actually identify why or what we're scared of.

When we actually do, it's actually not, someone's like, Jill is trying to, be an online coach. I'm like, yeah, I am trying to be an online coach is literally what we're doing. So own it. And that energy, the ownership energy is so contagious and people want to be around people doing shit. And so you can continue to just play it safe and, you know, not do all the things that are required.

Or you can just rip the band aid off and go for it. And then when these small little things come up, I guarantee you'll be able to handle them. But I think in your mind, they're so much bigger than they actually are in reality. 

Maestro: Every time, you know, the scariest thing about anything is thinking about it.

Once you're in it, you're like, well, I'm in it and I have to do this thing. That's like the, what Jill just said is, is. It in terms of how do you stand out online? You own your shit. That's literally it. You own your shit. And this isn't about shit talking. It's however you are, whatever you believe, whatever it is that you are the best at doing, whatever it is that your values are, whoever it is that you want to help, you own it.

It's as simple as that. One of the things we see is that people kind of going into many directions and I get it. We understand why you do this and, you know, humans as a social species, we understand that. And I think the reason I start to get so passionate about speaking about this, and I think Jill's the same way, is because we just want to help you.

And I'm like, if I can give someone a shortcut, there are very few shortcuts, right? The shortcut is typically doing the work, but if I can open someone's eyes to something, if I can provide, look to provide some sort of reassurance about something, I'm going to do it. And if you want to take it, great. And if you don't, that's fine too.

The thing I see slow people down is this, where they just, they're scared to do it. They're scared to own it. And I'm like, this is, this is the answer. You can take a million more personality tests. You can do whatever the fuck else you want to do. Or we can get started with baby steps, which is fine of owning it, of working towards owning who do I, what do I believe?

What do I like? What do I want to say? I get, I get, you know, it's like the most like crazy thing to start off with. Take the baby steps, but that is the way. That you're going to stand out in a space.

JillFit: You know, this is something I always think about and maybe we don't talk about this today, but this is something as a coach, I'm always trying to figure out.

And I know you work with a lot of people. I work with like, probably, you know, 200 people every month in their business and all the various capacities. And I'm always trying to figure out why some people take off and why other people don't like, cause I'm always like, what are best practices? Right? And so I think you hit the nail on the head.

Yeah. When you said, if there was a shortcut, it's this. I do see that audacity is a little bit of a cheat code. You know, I have people who I've worked with who within, you know, within 12 months are making six figures online. I've had other people who have been spinning their wheels for five years. And the people who have the most success or the fastest success just literally were like, fuck it, I'm doing it.

Like it, like at some point you have to just be like, yeah, like, you don't have to wait for permission. Like you can't wait for someone to anoint you ready or you're an expert or you're good enough. You just have to be like, you know what, fuck it. Like, I guess I'm just going to do it. And I know it's so easy, it's much easier said than done, but it really, at the end of the day, that really is it.

And one of my favorite things to, to tell my students is the person who has the right to do it as the one doing it. The person with the right to do it is the one doing it. We can all sit around and be like, that person doesn't even have a certification. That person, you know, isn't even lean or whatever judgment, but I'm like the fucking out there and they're having massive success or having enough success that you noticed.

So I think when you find yourself maybe criticizing that someone is further ahead or they're more successful than they quote unquote should be, maybe you can take a page from their book and just said, fuck it and just went for it. So if there is a cheat code, it really is audacity. I do believe. Yeah. 

Maestro: I think, you know, if we want to, um, dissect that and like, why, why is that?

Because people want a fucking outcome folks. That's why. Because when you go and buy something, you want the outcome that's promised. When you go and buy something, you want a solution. You don't buy a maybe you don't, you're like, I want this. And this person says they can help me. And even if the guarantee isn't necessarily like specific word for word,

ideally, yes, that would be like 100%, but it's good when it's like actual physical goods, then yes, you want the thing that you fucking are paying for. But when it comes to services, and Jill said it earlier, we're in business of trust, if they trust that you're going to help them, that's where they're going to go to.

Right? Yes, their goals may change along the way, but they trust that you will be there to help them get an outcome. That person who has the audacity to go and do things typically have the confidence to go and do things. And so they're showing up in that way and that's what people are attracted to because they want an outcome.

JillFit: They're attracted to certainty, right? Like we all are, right? That's one of the key needs of the human brain is certainty, which is why if you're in a sales conversation, you have to, at some point say, I can definitely help you with that. Like people need to feel that they need to feel like, Hey, I got you.

I've done this a million times. Like it's the energy you show up with. And I will validate, I think women in general, as a generalization, women have a harder time with this. I think it's a very like masculine thing to be like, I mean, even if they don't, even if they probably aren't qualified, they'll say they're qualified.

But so I do want to validate that I feel like especially my women tend to struggle with this a little bit more because they think they doubt themselves, their competency a little bit more. They're like, but what if there's that one person who I can't get a result? And there are, they're probably going to be people in your career who you can't get a result for.

That happens to everybody over time you start to identify patterns and maybe you turn that client away and things like that. People need to feel safe enrolling with you. They have to feel safe investing with you. They have to feel you've done a million times, even if you haven't. So there needs to be a level of confidence, conviction, and certainty transferred in that conversation.

So you need to be able to say, I can definitely help you with that. And if you can't, don't say that. But if you're like, oh, this person's an ideal client, then you have to say that because they need to feel, and also they're I always think about this in sales conversations. People are, they're more scared than you are.

So if you're new and you're like, I don't know if I can get them a result, they're going to pick up on that because they're also scared it's not going to work. So you need to come over the top with your ability. And even if things start going sideways, I always say, if you guarantee anything, guarantee one on one coaching.

It's like- I mean, you could always pivot, you could workaround for shit, you could tweak stuff on the fly. Like if you can guarantee anything, it's one-on-one coaching. So don't feel scared to guarantee an outcome when it comes to one-on-one. 'cause you can change shit anytime, right?

Mm-hmm. And so I, I think that at some point you have to really have a confidence in yourself. And I do think that, you know, reps and building a body of work, You know, social proof and all that kind of stuff really helps. 

Maestro: Big time. Ties in. I love that. Jill said that I'm cognizant of the time we're going to wrap it up, wrap it up shortly, but love that Jill brought it back to one on one because I think about PT.

And we, it is, it's like, PT is like the epitome of like being in the business of trust and like the relating component of things, because even if that person, their back pain stays, but you refer them to somebody who helps them. Cause you're like, this isn't, this isn't it. Like we've been doing these things, Jill, and I've seen this before and this is not going the direction.

I think I like, let's go to this person. They will still fucking trust you. They will still fucking thank you. Cause you still helped them. Right. So yes, they came in and you're like, yeah, I can definitely help you with this SI joint stuff because everything from the initial look like you could. Right. Yes. We can talk about Anna and the people that like can definitely guarantee results, but even she will tap in, you know, tap in Missy.

I almost said Missy Elliot. Her name is not Missy Elliot, but that's almost who came it's not, it's not Missy Elliot, but she'll tap in Missy and be like, this is like, I get did got most of the way with this, but there was still a little bit of this. And so even if she had to refer out that person who she was working with, because there was a one on one capacity and there's that trust and that relationship building is still grateful.

That person's still like you help me. I'll still refer people to you because you helped, even though you didn't, weren't the end person that solved my problem. So love that Jill brought that in of the one on one, which. Comes full circle from what we were saying earlier in terms of if you're just starting out or you're, even if you're not just starting out, but then you don't have a super full client roster, that's amazing.

Cause then you can offer more time. You're able to guarantee more of these results and then you're able to build these relationships so that if that result isn't coming, it's okay. You can pivot, you can refer out. Um, all right. 

JillFit: Self trust, which is really ultimately what you're talking about, right? Is like, you got to take on your first client, right?

You got to trust yourself enough to just be like, all right, take it on my first client. So maybe self awareness, self trust, build your confidence, audacity, rip the bandaid off. Let's go.

Maestro: Writing things down. Like, I'm thinking about what next, next, uh, episode. So each of these episodes, the four parts, we have a different theme.

Um, so I'm just writing things down. We did not take questions this episode folks, because this episode came out before the first one released. And when the first one released, Jill was like, Hey, if you got questions, slide into Maestro's DMs. Don't do that. Because. I made a Google form. So if you have questions, that link is in the show notes.

So if you listened to the first episode, then you've already seen it. We'll drop it in this one as well. Um, and we will take questions if you have questions and we will answer them on the show. So no questions getting answered this time, but that is okay. And we got different topic coming for the next two episodes as well, which will be on October 16th will be our third one and then our fourth business and bullshit with my bestie will be on October 23rd. I have a bullshit to ask about, bring up, uh, but is there anything else you want to throw in there? 

JillFit: No, I think that was great. Yeah. Hit a lot of different things there. 

Maestro: I love this. So again, folks, if you want this to become like a staple, its own show, let us know. Cause we don't build stuff unless the people want it.

That's another free business lesson for you. All right. So the bullshit that I'd like for, to bring up today and have you talk about isn't actually bullshit. It's quite remarkable. You wrote a romance novel. 

JillFit: I did. I know, it's very off brand for me. 

Maestro: Jill's a whole ass person. 

JillFit: I know. Well, the best thing about you is you, you definitely, you thrive on certainty.

You like to, things to make sense. Like I think most people do, but I'd be, I'm surprised at how many people are okay with things not making sense. They're just go through life with nothing making sense. And I'm like, don't you want to figure this out? And they don't, but you like figuring people out. And so there's been a few times in our friendship where I've been like, Oh, I like this.

And you're like, yep, I am a whole ass person. Um, so yeah, actually in 2013, I wrote an 82, 000 word. romance novel. It took me six months. And I was, um, reading a lot of romance at the time. And I was like at the time talking about like owning shit, I was really embarrassed by that to be honest. Like back then, cause I was like, this is really weird.

And like, I don't know. I just, I was thinking like it was 50 shades of gray and like, you know, it was just so much buzz around it. You know what the number one genre is? That people read is fucking romance because all of these women, like I was mid thirties, right? Being like, I, you know, want to read these.

I want to see these like, and I'm not like, I mean, maybe it's like, it's like female porn, right? It's kind of like female porn. So romance novels, if you are, and I know a lot of people do, I feel like this is more definitely more mainstream now. But I, there was just, there was some things that I just wanted to exist.

There were some scenes I wanted to see played out and being how I am, I was like, I write for a living. I could write this book right now. I'd written 700 something blogs. I was like, I've read so many romances. What could be hard about it? And I treat it like a job. I literally went to the coffee shop every single day, Monday through Friday around lunchtime.

And I wrote for several hours and I had a whole outline. I actually had it edited and then it just came back with too much red on it and I just gave it up. So that's where it died. Yeah, that's where it died. But 

Maestro: Who did, who edited it? Where, what? 

JillFit: Yeah. One of my best friends at the time was an editor for a magazine.

So, she had some editor friends, so she referred me to someone else who did it. 

Maestro: Would you circle back on that now and like, is this thing, like, would you get this thing published? Would you sell it? 

JillFit: I would. Yeah, I would. Yeah, for sure. I definitely, I mean, the writing is not as good. I'm a better writer now, for sure.

That was 10 years ago, right? So, I'm definitely a better writer now and for some reason after that I kind of stopped reading romance for a while. I stopped reading books entirely. I was like, I was reading a lot more like, you know. Um, business and psychology and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I might go back to it, we'll see.

Maestro: I think you folks listening, you hear though, like, when she first said that she wrote a romance novel, I was like, what? But everything else besides what the genre was so on brand of like, I want this thing to exist. I'm going to make it exist. Six months. I'm like, you wrote a whole book in six months.

Amazing, like I had been reading this and I was like, I think I could do this. I trust myself to go and try and do this and treating it like a job. Like all of that. So on brand, but the romance novel, I was literally like, I don't know if you've ever watched, uh, you watch, uh, what is that? Um, family guy, but in one of the scenes he does Stewie, his head, like go sideways.

And I was like, literally did that. When Jill says she wrote a romance novel, I was like, well. 

Now, you know, now people are curious what's in there. I'm sure they are. I'm curious. Yeah. 

JillFit: Maybe it will be, you know, maybe we'll dig it out. You know, one of the reasons why I did it too, is because I was kind of bored in my business.

I was like, I just need more creative. Like I need to feel more creative. Right. So that actually helped me being like being a passion project. And I like working on something like that. I like that. I'm working towards something. I'm very like outcome driven. So I like that. I was like, and I had an out, I remember when I had the outline and I was getting down to the last few chapters, like I couldn't wait to get to the coffee shop to write it.

I was that close. So yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe we'll bring it out sometime. 

Maestro: Did you, I'm guessing I already know the answer. I just have questions about this. Did you did you read some blog or course on how to write a book or you're just like, I'm going to write a book. I've read a lot of them. I have an idea of what I want this to look like.

JillFit: Yeah. Nope. I never read or took a course on how to write a book. 

Nope. Just wrote it. 

Maestro: And you're like, this is it. Just wrote it. Were the characters based on real people? 

JillFit: Uh, nope. 

Maestro: That's fascinating. 

JillFit: Yeah. It's called Sin City Secrets takes place in Vegas. 

Maestro: Jill, publish it, come on.

JillFit: You're going to do the audio for me. You're going to record the audio. I'm going to have you read it out loud. Get an audible. 

Maestro: It's so good. So good. So good. All right. I see the time. Jill, you want to wrap this up? What announcements? Do we do an announcement? Do 

we,

JillFit: I think that's all the announcements we have.

Um, make sure you guys check out the legacy interest page. We are going to be hosting and get this on your radar. We are going to be hosting a live call with us on October 30th, which is a Monday. Um, we are getting that together, all the details for you guys soon, but right now it's October one, so we don't have the recording this on October 1st.

So we actually don't have that quite yet, but when we do, we'll put it in the show notes, hopefully it will be in there next. It will be in this episode show notes for you guys to take a look at. And make sure you block that on your calendar is me at 7 p. m. Eastern 4 p. m. Pacific on Monday, October 30th.

Come and hang with us. Get your business questions answered. We're going to teach a little bit and it's, we're going to hang out. It's gonna be fun. So business and bullshit live. Let's call it. 

Maestro: There it is. Business and bullshit with my bestie live folks. One last lesson: Work with somebody who completes you right?

Don't be scared to lean in the things that you like and let the other person do the things that they like. I was like Jill what's the logistical? What's the What's the stuff we got to talk about? She's like I got this. Meanwhile when we're talking about the episodes I'm like I'd like to plan this, I'd like to edit these things. Lean into the things that you like to lean into.

That's the best part about having a partner. Right? All right. Anything else, JB? That's it. Maybe next week you folks will learn why I call her JB. Maybe, maybe not. You gotta tune in. 

JillFit: Could be. Wait, where's your bullshit? I guess last week was your bullshit a little bit. 

Maestro: It was, but I, I come up with the questions, so I, you could, you can ask me anything you want Jill to bring up for bullshit, but I was like, I would like to throw that out there.

JillFit: Okay. I'm going to have some next week. All right, y'all. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for your time and attention. We don't take it for granted. We love that you listened to this. Let us know if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, uh, Google form is in the show notes and we'll see you next week.

That is. Until next time friends, JillFit and Maestro, 

out.

Maestro: Maestro and JillFit here and welcome back to business and bullshit. No, you're not in the wrong place. If you're on FitbizU, right place. If you're at Maestro and the mic, right place. This is part two of our four part four part episode series that we're doing entitled business and bullshit with my bestie.

Last week, we talked about starting in the online space. What does it actually take? Can everyone do this? Spoiler, Jill said, no, and I agree. And today we have a new topic for you, which is going to be what it takes to actually stand out, right? Cause we talked about getting started, kind of what, what you got to do, but how do you actually make it? How do you stand out? Is the space crowded? Is the space saturated? We have many thoughts on this, and maybe we'll share some bullshit. Maybe a story. Maybe a little underboob story. I don't know. But, anything that you want to kick us off with, Jill, before I jump into the episode?

JillFit: Yes. So, actually, I do, and I'm super excited, and the first episode was, uh, was so fun, and we should just do this all the time. Actually, let us know, you guys. Send Maestro a DM or send me a DM at JillFit and let me know if we should do a business and bullshit standing show. We'll, we'll not take the place of Maestro on the mic.

We'll not take the place of FitBizU, but should we do a third show? Just all the content and all the places all the time. Let us know if we should do a standalone show. Um, actually I do want to plug, we are getting ready to launch our Legacy program. For those of you who have listened to this show for a while, you've heard me talk about Legacy.

Legacy is the mentormind six month coaching program that Maestro and I do together starting in January, and we are opening applications later this month. So if you're interested in getting on the interest list and getting the early details, you can go to Jillfitfree.com/legacy-waitlist that's jillfitfree.com/legacy-waitlist. And we'll also put it in the show notes. No obligation to be on that, but it is for those who are already in that intermediate place of online business. There's no specific metrics that we're looking at in terms of like, you don't need to have a huge following, you don't need to making a million dollars, but there are some things that we are specifically looking for in those applications to make sure that it's going to be a good fit and that we can help you as well.

So if you want to get the details, or you're just curious, go ahead and go to that link and we'll, uh, we'll send you guys more details when we get closer. 

Maestro: That was amazing. That was a commercial. That was so good. It just sounded like, and I'm like, she has a whole URL. I'm over here like, Courtney, can you put a link in the show notes?

JillFit: It's an easy one. 

Maestro: It's an easy one. Jill and I be operating different, different, different there, different there. All right. Let's jump on in. I have no idea how long this episode is going to be this time, folks. Because Jill and I could literally talk just forever and ever, but we are kind of… 

JillFit: But we have four episodes.

We do have four episodes, which I'm excited about. Actually, I'm pumped for this episode because I do think this is one of your zones of genius. And this is, and I'll just like say this, and I think I said this in the last episode, but I want to say it again here. I feel like when it comes to this thing, the niching down, the who are you within the space, what are you the best at, what's your zone of genius?

I feel like you are so good at seeing someone's… or their zone of genius because they oftentimes can't see it, especially if you're like just getting started and maybe you came from the gym or the clinic and chances are you've worked with a ton of different types of people. You're like, well, I worked with a 19 year old kid and a postpartum mom and a 70 year old man.

And so you kind of come in online thinking that you can work with all of those people. And even though you actually can probably get all of those people results, that's no way to niche down. And I will just plug the maestro meeting. If you guys want to know and have someone actually look at your shit, make sure you go to a and get a maestro meeting with, or just join legacy because we do that there as well.

But let Shanté look at your stuff, um, and pick that up. But we're going to get into it today. 

Maestro: Uh, I think that you nailed it there. We do see a lot of people coming from the, from, from in person, which is what I always champion. I'm like the best and fastest way to start an online business is in person.

And so people come from that in person space where you are very much limited by who can walk through your door. But suddenly you're online and you have access to a whole lot more people. And I've stayed, I've stayed, I stay saying it. The person that becomes the hip flexor helper, you're going to break the internet and be a millionaire.

I tell you a hamstring helper, hip flexor healer, those people are fucked up. You want to go viral, do posts on those things, but it's because you're actually able to, to niche down and be more specific with the problem that you solve, which for me is actually something important to differentiate. So I think then we, when we start talking about niching down oftentimes folks really get into the demographics of things and then maybe if they're like trying to go next level they go into like the psychographics of the person that they're trying to help, which is valuable. Very much. But oftentimes what we really want to look at first and foremost is the problem that we solve.

Then we can say who we solve it for. And sometimes equal with who we solve it for is how we solve it. Right. I'm thinking of someone that we both work with and she's in your SNS right now is Anna, Anna Hartman. And it's not so much who she works with, yes, it's going to be, uh, we'll say healthcare providers and we're looking at like physical therapists and ATs and things like that, but it's how she solves the problem and how she teaches them and the methodology and the approach that is really going to be niching her down.

So one of the things I want to flip over to you and I kind of was like, maybe let me see if Jill can do this. Cause it would be cool. And if you're like, no, I don't want to do that, then we don't have to. But one of my first exposures to like a tactical approach to niching down was your niche and pitch. I think it would be cool if you just kind of run the people through that.

Like give them a fun fucking homework right now. Let them run through what that looks like or but however you want to present it, because I know it's a podcast, but I think that'd be helpful. 

JillFit: Sure. Yeah. So we actually have a tool that we use called niche and pitch, which is really useful for not only figuring out who exactly you're going to work with, but who you're not going to work with, which I actually think is even more important online.

Because again, you come in and I'm seeing this right now with my beginner students in FBA, so many of them are so scared of turning away business because they don't have any business yet. Right? So they're like, well, I can't niche down. If I just say that I help people with weight loss. What if someone wants to build muscle or I don't want to say that I only work with women because what if there's that random guy who wants to work with me?

So there's, and I do want to validate that. That's really normal. But I would say that's probably a little bit more of a beginner issue is this feeling of scarcity. Like if I, if I declare one niche that all of a sudden I'm going to have no business because even this niche is probably even too niched.

And I will say we have someone in Legacy right now, shout out to Joy Black, who has an incredible niche. She's a, um, she does postpartum training for mountain climbers. Like, so when you hear us say that, and she's just crushed, has had her biggest launch ever. And so when you hear us say that, you're probably like, wow, is there anyone even in that niche?

But she's the best at it. So she owns the complete niche. And it was, I think Gary Vee, who I heard say this years ago, he was like, you can have 0, 0, 1 percent of a large pond, or you can have 95 percent of a small pond. And that's really what you want to think about when you're thinking about your niche.

So you can kind of visualize when we talk about the niche and pitch exercise, I'm a visual learner. So I was like, seeing something or writing it down or having a list of some kind. So if you want to do this exercise yourself, you can take out a piece of paper and just create like a box essentially, and then create four quadrants in the box.

And then we want to think about the top row, like the two boxes on top are going to be niche. And then the bottom two are going to be your pitch or the thing that you do or the problem you solve. So top left hand quadrant, that's going to be your ideal client. So this typically, I'll just start with like high level.

Typically, we can talk about it. This is not the case. Chances are for 90 percent of people who are trying to find their niche, it's going to be a previous version of you. It's going to be something that you've, and we can kind of caveat this, especially with healthcare professionals and stuff. Cause I'm sure, you know, if you're a PT or movement professional, you're You're not, you know, maybe you've never had an ACL tear, but you see people in the clinic who do.

So maybe there's a little bit of, but I know for me, I work in the like weight loss fitness space. A lot of people come online and want to be online coaches because they had their own transformation. And so ask yourself like, what was my own transformation? That's a good place to start. Not, it won't, it won't be the right thing for everybody, but it's a great place to begin to be like, okay.

Absolutely. Is, am I trying to help someone overcome the same thing I overcame? Now, it doesn't have to be like a massive weight loss or this huge transformation story, but maybe you didn't start lifting weights until you were in your forties and you're like, now I want to work with women 40 plus to get them stronger and, and you know, beat osteoporosis and all this kind of stuff.

So asking yourself, like, what did I overcome? Even if it was a small transformation, there's plenty of room for that. So that would be like ideal client, top left hand quadrant of that. Um, those four boxes, you want to write out two things here. So number one, you do need to know their current pains or problems.

So this is like what they would say to you if they, if you were asking them in person, like, Hey, what's the biggest, when you, when you, if you want to get healthy, you want to lose weight, you want to get stronger, whatever it is. You want to get consistent. What's your biggest struggle right now? What's your biggest hangup?

So you want to know specifically what pain and or problem they're experiencing in their words. The second thing you need to know about your ideal client is you need to know where they want to go. So what would be their ideal success? What word, what's their desired outcome? You know, cause part of what you're when Shanté and I talk about marketing, you have to paint the picture of what's possible for people.

They also oftentimes don't know, but you ask them like, Hey, if you had to wave a magic wand and you could have any outcome you wanted in the next. 12 weeks, six months, what would it be? What do they say? They will tell you exactly what they want. Another question I do love is what's your motivation for wanting to lose weight.

They'll tell you, they'll be like, I want to be able to run off my kids. I want to be able to, you know, get up the stair, go hiking without any issue. Like they'll tell you why they want that. And so that's typically going to be the problem. It's not that they want to lose weight. It's that they want to be able to hike and not have any issues or whatever it is.

So you need to know those two things, current pains and problems and desired outcomes. Top left hand quadrant. That's, that's probably the, probably like the hardest one that's going to take you probably the most time. Do you have anything to add to that in terms of like that ideal client? 

Maestro: No, I just want to highlight, I don't need to add, but I just want to highlight what kind of reiterate what Jill said about their motivation.

Like that's the next level thing to be thinking about. And I love that Jill brought that up and this is why Jill is the goat, but that's a, that is a big thing there. I have some questions for you after this, but let's take them through it. And then. I'll ask you the things. Cool. 

JillFit: So that's probably going to be the hardest one.

And it's going to probably take you the most iterations to like get to the very bottom of what that ideal client is going to be. Then, then top right hand quadrant is actually going to be simple. It's going to be, it's simple. Maybe it's not easy, but it's who you don't work with. Like who you're just not going to work with online.

So, you know, when we launched legacy, first thing Shanté asked me, one of the first things she said, do we want this to be women only? Yeah, no dudes, right? It's not that dudes aren't fine, but it's just no guys. So that would go in that top right hand quadrant for us. No men, right? It could be something like I help people with online business.

I've, I've certainly had people come to me and say like, Hey, I'm a gym owner. Can you help me? And I'm like, I don't do that. Not that I can't maybe get you a couple steps. I go to the gym. I worked in gyms. But at the end of the day, I'm not the best person to do that. So you have to draw a line in the sand.

This is what's going to be when I say it's, it's simple, but not easy. That's what I mean. Like, you're going to feel like you're cutting off options, but you have to say like, put a line in the sand. I'm not working with that person. Then bottom left hand quadrant. Now we get into the problems you solve. So bottom left hand quadrant is what you're the absolute.

Best at what transformation are the absolute best at facilitating. So I say transformation because we are in the transformation business, right? People are always paying for an outcome. They're paying for result. So that bottom left hand quadrant is like, if your ideal client came to you and said like, Hey, I'm ready.

Like. Like dude, rocket ship time. What are, what's the thing that you absolutely know you could get the result for someone, your ideal client came to you. If someone comes to me and says, Hey, Jill, I'm new to online coaching. I want to start a business. I'm like, dude, let's fucking go. Right. Like no, no questions, but bottom right hand quadrant, let's just say I've had people say this to me too.

I want to start a clothing line or I want to start an athleisure where I want to start a supplement line. And I'm like, yes, it's under the umbrella of wellness, but like. I don't know how to do that. And so I'll, so bottom right hand quadrant is just what you're not helping people with. So if you think about like, for example, let's say your personal trainer, group fitness instructor, again, you have a show of evidence that you have helped All of these different kinds of people, but online, you really have to pick your ideal client.

So that's going to mean turning off some of these opportunities, turning off some of these people who are just, you're just not the best at. Someone could come to me and say, Hey, Jill, I want to train for. A power lifting competition. And I'm like, cool. I like lifting weights, but I'm not the best at that, right?

It's a disservice and a waste of time for me to take on that person and for them to give me money. Cause there's someone out there who's doing power lifting way better than I ever could. And so it's important that you recognize the transformation you're the best at, and then the ones that you could help with, but it's, it's actually just going to be a waste of both your time and theirs because you're not the best person to help them do that.

Maestro: I have a few questions, but I'm just gonna hit this one right in the, in the face. Let's do it. When it comes to marketing, and I'm really thinking about the kind of weight loss kind of space, 'cause I've been thrust into that, largely come from working with you and kinda the people that come in through that, 'cause we don't talk about that in totally physical therapy. It's like, that's not a thing. This is not, and I'm like, you're talking about food obsession. Yeah. We don't talk about that. Believe it or not, we don't talk about that. Uh, I see in the space people that are scared to talk about weight loss because the pendulum has swung so fucking far that if you want to lose weight, you're a bad person, or if you want to help people lose weight, then you're fat phobic or just all this stuff around there and I talked to people that are coaches and they're just like, dude, I want to people get healthy.

Like, if weight loss is part of it, it's part of it. If it's not, it's not. But like, they're scared to even, yeah. Say anything about it, or kind of draw that line in the sand or even approach that subject. And so they're kind of trying to, I don't want to use the word manipulate, but it's all that's coming to word.

They're kind of trying to manipulate the goals that their client has, so that it kind of fits what they feel comfortable doing. And they're like, Oh, you want to like, make peace with this thing. And like, yes, maybe at some point, but the person like where they're at and what they know, the language they know, the problem they know they have is over here.

How do you. Address that, Jill. 

JillFit: So this is, I love this because I do feel like that the pendulum is swinging back a little bit the other way, because I actually had a question written down for you, which was like, I have a lot of people who say, can I only make money if I'm selling weight loss? So I see a lot of the opposite.

Mm-hmm. , which is, I see both, I see a lot of people who are like, I'm anti-D diet and I don't wanna even talk about weight loss, and I just wanna be part of it, and I get it. And then I, I see other people who's like, actually not that great at helping people lose weight. Mm-hmm. , they go, mm, . People only want to lose weight.

So do I have to do weight loss? I'm not the best at that, or I don't really feel comfortable with that, but I have to say weight loss to get business. And so I think this is a fine line. I will say one of the huge mistakes I see in niching down is too many people trying to sell something that someone wants after the transformation.

So for example, like, you know, my personal story was I was a competitor, a figure competitor. I was a fitness model and I was a yo yo dieter. And so for me, I was always like a normal weight, but I would balloon up and down, like 20, 30 pounds multiple times per year because I had these massive rebounds and then these strict dieting, whatever.

So, you know, after doing that for like eight, 10 years, I really had a terrible relationship with food. But I would never have said that when I was in that place, I would never have said like, I need to help have someone help me have a better relationship with food. Right. But now, because I've overcome that and I now eat moderately and mindfully and all that kind of stuff.

Now I could say I help people have a better relationship with food. But the person who's in that pain and that problem in that moment isn't saying that. And so I see people trying to sell an outcome that no one is asking for. Now, does someone want to have a good relationship with food after the fact, to your point?

Sure. But they don't know they need that. They're like, wait, I just like, if you had asked, if you had said that to me back when I was in that like food obsession, I just need to lose weight. I'm not lean enough. I wouldn't be able to hear that. Just eat mindfully. Just eat moderately. I need someone to be like.

You know, look, I'm going to help you lose 10 pounds and do it safely and keep it off for good or whatever. Like, that's what I was looking for in that moment. So you have to go back and maybe jog your memory about what previous you was saying. Or if you've talked to these people when they come into the gym or they come into the clinic, What language are they using?

They're not saying stuff like, I want to feel more confident in my skin, or I want to have a better relationship with food, or I want to trust myself around food. They're not saying that. We say that on the other side of it. So I think it's okay to repeat back what someone just says to you instead of being like, I know you said weight loss, but what you really mean is you want to be more confident in your skin, don't you?

And you're like, Maybe, but after the transformation, we say that we're like mindset is everything, but the person who wants to lose 20 pounds isn't saying they need to change in mindset. So I think it's important to speak the language and not try to make it different. So if someone wants weight loss, deliver weight loss, and then start Trojan horsing some of the other stuff that you believe is important, like mindset and habit change and liking yourself and all of these amazing other benefits, but liking yourself, people not paying for that.

Right? They're not paying for it to like themselves. They're paying because they think if they lose 20 pounds, then they're going to like themselves better. So sell what they want and then give them what they need.

Maestro: Big time. Big time. What's your, what's your take on that? I think that it's, it's exactly what you were speaking about in the beginning, which is Jill's saying sell weight loss if that's what you sell and that's what you're good at and that's what you want to sell, right?

So this is for the person that's like, I want to sell this. I'm good at it, but I'm scared to sell it because somebody is going to come and say that I'm fatphobic. 

JillFit: Yeah. I didn't talk about that. I'd love to hear your take on that. 

Maestro: Sell whatever the fuck you sell. Like. People need help. That's what, I watch PTs do it.

So the, uh, I don't know, the, the complimentary PT equivalent would be what? Yes, thank you. The PT equivalent is the PT that's just fucking saying big words because they're thinking that the khaki brigade and the khaki clan is gonna come after them. So they're like, got these posts that people don't even know what the fuck they're saying.

They're like citing studies and I'm like Joe, next door, debilitating back pain and has no idea you exist because you're over here debating with Stan about this bullshit. Same, same. Whoever it is that you help, focus on helping them. I get, maybe you'll get some chirping and you'll get some stuff, but guess what?

That doesn't, at the end of the day, doesn't fucking matter. You have to be looking at. Who are you trying to help? I get it. I want to validate it. I'm talking with Jill. Jill's the nicest lady ever. And so she's going to like validate that the process is difficult. But at the end of the day, if you want to help people, go fucking help them and have the blinders on.

So whether it's in the weight loss side of things or you're on the PT side of things, so remember your peers don't pay your bills. So. Focus on your shit and do what you came to do. 

JillFit: Here's what I think about too. I think about being a client Imagine being a client and go into a gym walk it into a gym and I want to hire a personal trainer You sit down in the sales conversation and person says what your goal and then you say well I really would like to lose like 10 to 20 pounds and they go I know you think that's what you want, but that's not really what you want.

That's kind of what we're doing online. Exactly. Right. And look, I believe that there's a, the ability, and this is why I love social media. It's free. We can educate people on why fat weight loss or fat loss isn't the only thing on the menu, right? Do that. Use your free content to educate people on the other things that you think is amazing so they can open their eyes.

I always say that most people just think weight loss is the only thing on the menu. So that's typically what they say. I think with our free content, we can actually start, uh, implanting ideas of other amazing health outcomes. But if someone comes to you and says, don't fight them on it, right? They say, I want to lose weight.

You don't fight me on them. Like, you know, take them on, help them do the thing they want while also educating them on all the other amazing benefits that come with getting healthier. So I was thinking from the client perspective, right? And I'm just like, that's weird that we would do that to a client.

Maestro: It's like, no, like I really thinking about where people are at and Jill, Jill pointed this out earlier. Like you're oftentimes just steeped in the stuff, you know, you're surrounded by people that know the same stuff as you or at that same level as you, and you don't realize where if you're going to the average person, you probably don't realize where they actually are.

Right. You might be like, so if there's, if you're a newer, you're like, maybe so like, kind of divorced from things. Go to the airport and you'll see where the average person is. Do it at an amusement park. 

JillFit: No, go to jury duty. That's where I was. I was like, okay, this is society. It was wild. Go to a mall. 

Maestro: Yo, the universe was just like, oh, Jill, you don't want to fucking respond to this.

Now you're going to have jury duty. 

JillFit: I know. I'm so mad. I didn't listen to someone. Someone told me that you can't, nothing can happen because unless it's certified, they can't like 

Maestro: keep sending that shit.

JillFit: I know. And then the, the, the red letters get bigger and bigger on the, and it's like, you're going to go to jail.

And it's like, just send it back. Just respond. So then of course I responded and I had to be there for like all week.

Maestro: I was like, damn. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. Uh, with, I lost my train of thought a little bit, but I had another point that I wanted to make just about the, cause you brought it up just about the, the, what you're selling, who you're selling it to, and just basically being like, no, this, this isn't your goal.

I know what I was going to say. So the, the realtor that we worked with. Like, we become very good friends with her and we text and that's where the average person is at. And she's messaging me. She wants to lose, like, I don't know, something like five pounds. Like, and I, I see all this stuff that people in my ecosystem are putting on our ecosystem are putting out and like how, like, it's wild to just be like spending all your time and energy over these five pounds.

But like, if that's where the person's at. Then we can't just be like, no. So when she messaged me, I can't just be like, no, that's dumb. Like go do this other thing. That's that ain't it. Not that I'm trying to train her or anything like that. I've actually been pushing her towards our clients and be like, Hey, here's a resource.

Oh, you want to do that? Here's- that's not what I fucking do, but here's a resource. Oh, you want to walk? Okay, let's go for a walk. We have to meet people where they're at. And it's within the parameters of solving the problem that you want to solve. So one of the things that Jill had asked earlier was like, or brought up was, you know, clients, I do get this as well. Clients saying, well, I know weight loss sells. Like, do I have to sell that? Is that the only way that I can make money? No. And this goes across the board, right? I love what Jill said about people not knowing what's on the menu. That's one thing. And two, we talked about this in the last episode and it'll probably come up every episode that we ever do is just taking radical responsibility for our decisions, right?

We know that certain things are just going to be, I always use the word more like universally accepted or like more universal. Nothing is 100 percent universal, but we know that certain things are more popular than other things. If I say the word, um, entertainment. Most people think funny. Entertainment is subjective, but if I say it, they're like, funny.

Because certain things just are like, accepted as like, kind of the standard for things. They're just more popular with it. Yes, that may be the case with weight loss, but it doesn't mean that other things don't sell. And if that's not what you fucking do, then don't do that. Figure out what it is that you are the best at, and then I need you to go all in.

Jill was saying earlier, like, this is one of the things I do. This is probably my favorite thing to do, is look at someone and look at their content and talk to them. And all the calls that I do for this are like one on one. And I used to sit and hear people's stories. And like, as much as, I say I don't like Zoom, but I will say the benefit of Zoom is that I can see people's face.

And I can see when they light up and they're talking about something. And I'm like, that's the thing. You can do it but this thing that you just said to me, that is the thing. And we need to go all in the radical responsibility part comes from like, yeah, it may be slower because not as many people know about it or it's not as quote unquote popular.

That's okay. Because one of the reasons that Jill and I named the program legacy is because you're not here to build a flash in the pan success business. You're here to build an actual legacy, this thing that's sustainable and. It has longevity to it. And the only way that you're going to do that is behind something that you truly believe in and that is truly in alignment with you.

So yeah, certain things may not sell as well. Like it would be a lot easier if I just told people you're going to make 10, 000 and you're going to make it in five seconds. And like social media is really easy. You don't have to post that much and you can just like hire someone and you can just hire everything out.

But one, that's also, well, that's a lie, uh, but two, that's not how I sell. And that's not what I sell from day one. I've been like, this is going to be a really long time and you might not actually make it, but it's going to be, you can make it worth it. I think that comes from the kind of the PT background where I'm like, you have to work.

It's not always going to be fun, but you're going to get ultimately get that outcome if you put in the work and the effort. 

JillFit: So, you know, I think, and I love that. I think this comes down to also people having to like learn business, right? So for example, if you're listening to this and you're a practitioner or you're a trainer or you're a coach of some kind, coaches love coaching.

We love to diagnose. We love to prescribe. We like, someone comes to me, like, I'll give you an example. If someone came to me, it was like, ah, I've just been having massive headaches. I'm not going to like, as a coach, I'm thinking, well, maybe you're dehydrated. Have you tried LMNT? Are you doing that? Like I'm automatically coaching them up, right?

Versus sticking with the symptom. The symptom is a headache. So am I speaking to the headache or am I already diagnosing and speaking like five steps ahead? You know, I think about health and fitness space now, I don't know if she's that relevant anymore, but you know, who, like when I asked my mom, Right.

You ask your realtor, right? These are just regular people, not in our space. I asked my mom, like, you know, who do you, who do you know in health and fitness? Like, do you know any people? Do you follow any people? You know what she says? Jillian Michaels. 

Maestro: I was like Jillian, 

JillFit: Jillian Michaels, right? And fitness people hate Jillian Michaels.

They're like, she doesn't even have a certification. Y'all, I don't know. Her books are at fucking Walmart, right? Her books are at Target, her like video DVD, whatever it is. So I think one thing to think about now, it doesn't mean you have to quote unquote sell out or you have to do anything that doesn't feel good to you, but that should tell you that if you want to have a successful business, you have to appeal to more than just your peers.

It can't just be the language. I see all this. I see it all the time and it's fine. It's interesting, I guess, but I see a lot of personal trainers being like weight loss and fat loss are not the same thing. Do the average person cares that they're not the same thing? No, they're just going, look, look, I got this thing right here.

I get they're grabbing their midsection going. I just need to get this off. I don't know what that is, but I don't care if it's fat loss or weight loss or whatever. I just need to lose 10 pounds by my vacation. Right? So again, I know that this is hard because we love the science and we love getting tactical and like, I love how you call the khaki brigade, but like, we love impressing our peers.

I don't know. You can either impress your peers or make money. Like I think you have to at some point decide who am I here to help and be okay with some of the fallout. If one of your peers, like you called it chirping, like, I don't know, like at the end of the day, I think if you want your peers to respect you, do have a successful business and you're not going to have successful business by trying to appeal to your peers unless you're going, you know, B2B.

Maestro: That big time. I think about Perry Nickleston. And if you folks listening to this, you're in the. The really kind of the, um, the, we'll say the movement space and the kind of PT space, you know, who Perry is, he stopped chasing pain and he gets all the chirping. I thank him probably once a month. I text him and I'm like, thank you for taking the arrows.

But I watch him as he, I will say that he gets the respect from some people, some people are just going to be stank all the time, but he gets the respect because yes, we can say it's because he has a successful business and we can look at the financial side, but it's also because people want to help people.

And so he's helping people. He has that audience. He has those eyes and yes, that will bring with it some jealousy and you'll get some of that shit starting off. But I watch as the stuff he does, cause he's ahead of the curve. People are like, Oh, what's that poo poo. And he's like, dude, tunnel vision. This helps people.

It's helping my people and that's what I'm focused on. Like, yeah, I know people are going to say stuff. And then lo and behold, a year later, a year and a half later, people are doing the same thing. They're like, Oh, this thing kind of works. Right? So big message there that Jill's saying as well is who are you trying to help?

I thought I'm probably going to pull that one part for the teaser, Jill. You're speaking about diagnosing. Instead of just treating, like addressing the symptoms, really listening to that symptoms and and speaking to those. That is fucking huge. Fucking huge. 

JillFit: Coaches want to coach. And that's what I mean by like, at some point you have to decide, am I in my, do I have my coaching hat on or do I have my marketing hat on?

Which is, you know, part of what, like, look, when you guys join Legacy or you, you know, work with Shanté or myself, you come in with. Your expertise. I'm not going to teach you how to help someone count macros like I can, but that's not what I do. I help put the marketing and sales on top of the thing that you're already good at.

And so whatever your IP is, this is a question that comes up quite a bit is like, especially with weight loss, right? Do you, is it out of your integrity to help someone in business who wants to do weight loss? And I'm like, no, I don't care what, I mean, sure. Like, I don't know if maybe someone is like a racist or something like, yeah, maybe I'm not gonna help them grow their business.

Right. But like for the most part, I'm like nothing wrong with macro accounting, nothing wrong with moderation, nothing wrong with keto inherently. Right. Like I'm, I'm just going to help someone build their business. I'm not in managing the mode of like what they're teaching. Right. And so I think you have to ask yourself, um, do I have my coaching hat on, or do I have my marketer hat on? And am I trying to help someone right now? Or am I trying to, you know, bring in sales, right? Because once you have the sales, and I heard Brendon Burchard say this years ago, he said, I know you care about the message, right? He's like, you care about the message.

You want to get the message out. You want to make an impact. You want to reach people. He's like, but the money sustains the message. Remember, like, if you're not bringing in dollars, you got to go get a job somewhere else and you're not gonna have the time to post on social to help people. So the money is important because the money helps sustain the message.

So yeah, you do want to think about, yes, I want to help people, but I also want to get paid well for it. And As you start helping more people, to your point about Perry, now you have a show of evidence that like, Hey, I don't care if this is in the literature or not. I have a group of people who this worked for.

And I think that's why more beginners to online coaching are the most scared of getting called out because they don't have the reps yet. They don't have the evidence that they're good. If someone asked you and me and pooh poohed something that we, that we were teaching about business, I'd be like, dude, that's fine.

But like, I've seen it work a million times. Like, I just know it works. So like. Whatever, someone else, Hormozi says it differently or someone else says it differently, that's fine. But I know for a fact it works. You've seen it work. And so I think you do have to at some point decide, you know, am I, am I going to willing to learn business skills?

Cause I need the money to send the message. 

Maestro: Jill, what, one of the things you're talking about here is kind of- one I'm going to say, and then one I have a question, this is again, I'll make the plug for starting in person and having reps already. Like there's so much value. Yes, you can start online and let's like start from scratch and be like, I'm trying to do this thing.

Radical responsibility. It's going to take longer because you don't have the confidence because you don't have the fucking reps. Like people will talk about imposter syndrome and I'm like, you should have, it should feel like, you know, good yet, because you're not good yet, like, like it's not imposter syndrome yet.

You haven't helped anybody. But if you have helped people and this is where, you know, I think about to, to me starting. When I came into the online space, I was already five years into a PT and I was fucking good being a PT. Like I could get people better. So I came on and I was like, I'm just going to share what I'm doing.

Cause like, I know this gets results. It wasn't like I was day one brand brand new. And like, I don't know, I'm just sharing. I'm like, no, this shit actually works and here, here's what I'm doing. So there's a lot to be said about taking the things that you have done and the experience that you have and really leaning on that, uh, and sharing that.

My question for you, Jillian, is we're talking about stealing the language of our people. So helpful. It's the easiest way to write things. It's easier to attract things. What if no one's saying anything to you? How do you get this language? How do we, what is our first step? Cause it's a question I get asked as well.

JillFit: Yeah, I mean, you're probably better to answer this because I feel like you definitely, um, one of your strengths is getting your people to talk back to you, even a small audience to engage with you. I would, I, I'm going to, I'm actually going to turn it back on you because I would love if you talked about, because here's the thing you could, I mean, I'll give you like the, the, the business side, which is like do market research, right.

Ask people locally, you know, like put on free, like free calls, free consults, like. Stuff like that. Like, look, you can, like, I, I asked my mom all the time. I'm like, have you ever heard of this thing? And she's like, I have no idea what that is. And I'm like, okay, like I. So you could gather from people in your life where they're at or what they think, what their mentality is.

But I understand you might be talking more about like, if I put a question box up in my stories or a poll or whatever. And I'm like, 

Maestro: phenomenal. 

JillFit: But I think. And this speaks to, I think what you're so good at is people only want to talk back to you if they feel connected to you, right? If they feel connected and they're not going to feel connected if you're constantly asking them to ask them, answer a bunch of questions.

That's not, that's not connection building. That's not relationship building, right? That's asking, that's taking. So how do you first give to your audience? How do you first connect to your audience? Because I know for a fact, if you put up a question box and you're like, Hey, you guys, I'm really interested in your take on this.

You'll get hundreds of people responding to that because they care about you. So I think before you are like, I need people to respond back, like you have to care about your audience. You have to care about forming relationships, even a handful of relationships online. And I don't think that you form relationships by asking people questions about their struggles.

I think you form relationships from, from the connection things and the things that you teach when you teach branding. Don't do that. 

Maestro: I would encourage you folks, if you didn't write it down, if you're driving, like then go back to this. But what Jill said before is actually very, very good and very helpful.

And from Jill's all about tactics, like very, very tactical there of just doing things locally, having free calls. I did free calls before I put it out on social media, wherever you wherever you can, wherever you have an eyes that already trust you and you have that relationship side of things, have free calls.

I have talked people just for free to see here what they're fucking saying. I'm not gonna sell you nothing. I'm like, What's going on? And that's the end of the call. 

JillFit: You can even call it an interview, right? You can even call it an interview. You can say like, Hey, would you mind if I just like interviewed you about it?

Like you don't have to prepare anything. Just like five minutes. I'll just ask you some questions and then get them on zoom and then just record it. That's all you need to do is like, Hey, and people will want to help you if you're genuinely asking for a favor. People want to be helpful. So you can't just say like.

You can't just throw up a box on Instagram stories and assume people like I never get and I'm like, but you don't frame it up in a way that makes anyone care about actually helping you not because they don't like you. Right. But because they're just scrolling and they're doing other shit and they're just tapping through.

So if you give them a little context about what you're doing and how it's going to help you and make it a sincere. Sincere, genuine ask you just that shift alone will get so many more people responding to your polls and answering your questions, especially if you put like a time limit on it. Like one thing I'll always say is like, Hey, you guys.

This is going to take you 20 seconds, like 10 seconds, one, like one single sentence. Like I try and lower the barrier to entry for the audience. So number one, they see it as a genuine favor to me. Like they're actually helping me. People want to be helpful. And number two, I'm like, I don't put in five different question boxes that are all open ended.

There's a whole science. There's a book called Ask by Ryan Levesque, which if you've ever taken like a quiz online, this is kind of like the mentality, the psychology behind taking a quiz is. The first couple of questions in a quiz are like primer questions. They're not even like these open ended questions.

They're like, they're like name, gender, date of birth, because there's a psychology to building momentum to then asking an open ended question. So for example, if I was going to have you ask some, like put some polls in your, or questions Instagram, I would probably have like maybe two polls that are quick taps, yes or no, answers first.

And also I will say with polls, I see a lot of people, and maybe you do too, this fucking cracks me up, but I see a lot of people being like, do you binge eat? Yes or no? Dude, no one's going to cop to that shit, right? No one is going to be like, I binge eat. So it can't be a question where there's clearly a better answer, right?

Cause all those motherfuckers who are binging are going to be like, I'm not answering this question, right? So you're not going to, so instead, if you're going to have an A or B answer, it needs, they both need to be, so instead you might say. Hey, if you're someone who overeats at times, do you typically choose salty things or sweet things?

Cause that just assumes we all binge, we all overeat sometimes. Which do you tend to reach for more, sweets or salty? So then it's like, okay, these are both neutral. Like there's a neutrality to this poll. So I would say you probably want to start with a couple like fast hitters like that, A or B. There's no judgment about it.

I always write that in. There's like no, no right answer, no judgment. And then if you want to have an open ended question about like, what's your biggest struggle or whatever, people now already feel pot committed, right? They already feel it's like the, what's it called? It's um, the sunk cost fallacy. Like they're already committed.

They're already invested. They've already answered two of the polls. They're much more likely to finish out the last question because they're already building momentum. 

Maestro: I love this. A few things to say, one, we're going to back it up to Ask by Ryan Levesque, it's actually a very short book. Y'all know I don't be like, I'm reading that much.

JillFit: Just for the first half is the only one you really need. The first half is the psychology behind it. 

Maestro: And it's like a very small book, so like, write it down, do the thing. The notes I just took with that is like, do the thing. I'm not going to lie. I get fucking annoyed. People go crazy. They go, you say a book name and they get all excited and they don't, don't do fucking do shit with it.

Like they buy it and they read it and they don't, I'm like, go ask then. Reading the book is not the thing. You have to like, go and do something with it. Right. Well, someone said the other day, transformation like begins with implementation, so you have to like, you have to like, do the thing. I just read the fucking book.

All right. So go ahead. We'll link in the show notes if you want. But then actually like go and ask and we'll just be like, I read it. Great. 

JillFit: So how would you, I'm like, let's back it up before people even ask anything. Right. How do they build a captive audience to actually, that people actually want to, like, I know when you ask a question, people want to tell you what they think.

So it's not hard, but how do you get your audience to, to be excited to tell you what they think? 

Maestro: So I think one of the things Jill gave the answer to this before as part of it is giving people the gift of going second and it's really nice if they're going after you. So one of the examples I use for this is if you ever want like a kid you're speaking with a little kid and you want them to first of all, it's random here, but this is business and bullshit little kids love me.

I don't really love little kids They're fine. But like little kids and animals. I think it's my face like my teeth. They're like, you look like a caricature They love me little kids each wanting to touch my teeth. It's very weird. It's a thing. Lex has seen it And she's like I like didn't really know but she's like now I know I believe you and I'm like, yeah It's a thing 

JillFit: young girls.

Love me like like like 9 through 12 Love me. Yeah. 

Maestro: No And then jill pays them to like go do races so she could just watch 

JillFit: Exactly. I put em through an obstacle course. You want me to babysit your kids 100 burpees for time? 

Maestro: The best. Business and bullshit needs to happen, folks. Write in to us. Let us know if you want this to be a full time thing.

But if you are hanging out with any of these little kids and you're trying to make conversation and you want them, want to know their name, the way that you get a kid to say their name is you tell them your name first. You say, Hey. I'm Shanté. I honestly get, like, I need, I do, like, get to their level. I'm like, I'm Shanté.

I like doing X, Y, Z, or just say, I'm Shanté. What's your name? They're far more likely to say their name than if you're like, what's your name? Right? So same, same goes for online. And Jill slipped it in there with the question, uh, about binging. Like if you binge, um, and kind of making it seem like we all do this, is it salt to your sweet?

So, not getting any kind of blame and giving them the gift of going second. Letting them know it's okay, right? Cause if you go back, think about humans and wanting to belong, that's huge. So when we are looking to build this audience, you have to lead with your own life. You have to, it's not like I'm just broadcasting and then, you know, never commenting or saying anything ever, but the things that you're preaching, the message that you're trying to teach, you have to be living it and you have to be sharing it, that is number one.

And then when people so show interest, you show interest. Write back. So people kind of, I get you're online for business. This is why I said it a million times, it's the nicest lady ever. It starts with relationships. And if things are purely transactional, you're gonna, you're gonna struggle with business.

So if we take from the relational side of things and we're okay that, you know, maybe this person never buys from us, that's okay. Just build a relationship. It's, it's all right. The person messages you, they respond to something, respond back. The best thing about starting online is that your audience is small.

So we take advantage of that because you can respond to every single comment. You can respond to every single DM that you get. And it's not because you're not receiving is because you actually, you asked for them. Although calls to action are very helpful. It's a, this is how the population works, right?

Some people just like to talk. Some people are early adopters and. They'll take a chance on responding because you're sharing your life, right? I've, I've said time and time again, as it relates to social media and relates to Instagram, stories are the most important part of the platform because we are in the business of relationships, right?

In the business of trust. Stories are relatable. Because it's just your life when you're teaching stuff, which I want you to do. Cause businesses are built on solution to problems when you're teaching stuff in the feed, people don't have much to say. Cause ideally you're like a zillion steps ahead of them.

You're you're solving their problem, but they're like, what are they gonna say? Thank you. Maybe. Meanwhile, you go into your stories and you're washing dishes and they're like, you have a sink. It looks like my sink, we're the same. I'm going to message you about that sink and you start the relationship with that.

So I think the big thing there is in terms of building this audience is lead from the front, give people the gift of going second, share your life and then relate with people. You'll have those people at some point like this thing. They like the thing you're wearing. They talk, they respond to this thing.

Right back to them and literally starts with one person and then the next person. And we're grateful for every single interaction that we have. You know, I'll borrow Jill's phrase and I want to validate that. Yeah, the numbers are wild now. So, you know, 2023 and people have like a zillion followers and you can see like people having a lot of, a lot of comments, whether they're real or not.

I don't know because people can see that they don't value when they're just starting out the one comment and the one DM that they get. But those things are very valuable. So we'd start with that of relating with that person. And then from there, the things grow. 

JillFit: I love that. And you know, it reminded me of, um, our last FBA launch.

We had this gal who was, she was like so excited, like, can't wait to join FBA. FBA is my more beginner business program. And she was like, I want to, I want to start right away. Is there anything I can do? And I thought she was a shoo in. Right. So we, we did a sales call and she, like, we're talking through it and I kind of tell her a little bit of the program, whatever.

And then open cart. She doesn't enroll. So I'm like, Hey, remember when you were like 100 percent in last week or whatever it was. And then she did another sales call with someone on my team. And at the end of the call, he said, my teammate said, um, She's going to go with another business coach who's cheaper than you and is giving way more It's a way more one on one because he's a newer business coach And I was like this is great because this is exactly what we're talking about. When you are just getting started you can give someone so much more time so much more of your attention, you know, FBA is a group coaching program so if someone wants one on one coaching with me, they're not that like FBA is not a good fit.

So she can get something cheaper now. I don't know that he has the experience and probably doesn't have, you know, like, but she's like, cool. I- here's someone who can give me a lot more one on one, a lot more FaceTime and good on that guy. Cause he used it to his advantage. He's like, you can join Jill's program, that is a group program and maybe get a couple of minutes of her time here and there. Or you can work with me and get all this like FaceTime. You're one of like five clients I have, right? Like, and so that's, and I can't blame her for that because I'm like, that's not an advantage I have at this point, but that is an advantage that someone who's just getting started has use that to your advantage.

Put your marketing head on and be like, Hey, you know, one of the best things about my client load right now is I actually keep it less than 10 clients, which means you're going to get a ton of FaceTime for me. So I think there are so many benefits to. Really speaking to the kind of time and attention you can give people, especially in the beginning.

And that's sort of related to what you were saying about getting back to everyone's DMS and things like that. 

Maestro: You have the time. I love that example. I fucking love that example. Jill, I'm looking at the time. I want to switch this a little bit and ask you about standing out. So kind of what we were talking about with this, this first part was kind of inbound marketing, putting content out there, attracting people.

And then we're looking to really build relationships with them. What was that? 

JillFit: Speaking their language. 

Maestro: Yeah. Speaking their language, stealing their language, speaking to this person, getting them to eventually speak to you at some, at some point in time, whenever, whenever that is, what about. So we talked about this is kind of that was a niching downside of things.

What about kind of intentionally looking to stand out, right? Because we have people that will come in, people are in the space and they're just like, I just feel that the market's too saturated. I feel like I don't stand out. I feel like my message sounds the same as, as everyone else. What do we say to this?

JillFit: Yeah. I mean, and, and I think you probably agree with me on this. You're never going to stand out based on your credential. Like you're just never going to be like, you can't have the, like, that's never going to be. But I think for a lot of people, they do have this imposter syndrome because they're like, I don't have enough certifications.

I don't have the top credential. I'm not qualified enough. That's never how you're going to set yourself apart. You know, I look at, and also you're never going to set yourself apart by having the biggest following, you know? So for example, I'm very aware of some of my new students have a couple hundred followers and they know everyone who they're following and who's following them because it's friends, family acquaintances.

And for them, they think that's a negative because they go, well, why would someone work with me when someone else is also doing macros who has a million followers? Why wouldn't they go that person been doing it longer? They're obviously more successful. I'm like, because those 200 people following you don't have a relationship with that person.

Like, and we forget this sometimes when a potential client is following you. They're probably, if they're not in your space, they're not in the health fitness movement space. They're probably only following like three fitness people. And you're one of the three, they're not following all the people you're following.

So I do think it is oftentimes because we are in an echo chamber where we're only following people who are saying the same thing. So it feels like everyone's saying the same thing. You know, it's interesting. Like sometimes I'll see my, my partners, like he's on Instagram or something and I see his explore tab and it's like so different than mine.

It's like. You know, it's all dogs and surfing and stuff like that. And I'm like, Oh, like there are other, it's like, you know, TikTok has a different channels. It's kind of like Instagram has a different channels and we're all just locked on the same channel. Your ideal client is not following the 2000 fitness people you're following.

They want to connect with you because they have a relationship with you. And this can be confusing at the beginning because you're like, a guy I went to high school with wants to work with me and I don't really work with dudes, but like, and he's kind of creepy and I don't know, we haven't talked for 20 years.

And it's like, but he just knows you, right? He doesn't know anyone else and he needs to lose weight. So he's like, well, you're the one that I went to high school with. We haven't talked in 20 years, but I trust you because I went to school with you. And so, so much of these dial movers, the things that will set you apart have nothing to do with you being the smartest, being the leanest, uh, having the top credential.

It's going to be you being you. And I do, and I, you, you, I want to, I want to toss it to you because you talk about this so well. I think sometimes people have a hard time showcasing who they are, those, those knowables or those things because they go, well, it's not safe. I need to be like so and so because they're successful.

So I'll give you guys an example, like if you follow someone like a Ryan Holiday or I don't know some of these people who are like big into reading books, you might think to yourself, well, I just need to read books. And I need to show the books I'm reading because someone else who is successful reads a lot of books when in actuality you fucking hate books.

Like I love so much that you are like very anti, like you, you're like, you love to learn, but you're like, look, I'm not fucking read that book. It's too much. Yeah. But there's a level of confidence, right? Cause that's almost, that's like anti, um, it's like, uh, what's it called? Like, you know, kind of just like, it's an unpopular opinion, kind of counterculture, right?

We're supposed to be like reading and like, and some people just, you're just like, I'm not gonna do that. But I think that people know that about you. Because you're going against the grain. And so, I think you need to know yourself, and this is something you talk about so well, is like, you have to know yourself first, in order to know how to share yourself.

Maestro: That, that's so much and you know, I'm going to tie in what something that Jill always says. This is how we live folks. Just be like, remember you said that? And then you said that. 

JillFit: I'm like, well, you're the best at that. 

Maestro: You talk about that. Jill talks about how starting an online business really will just hold up a mirror and encourages, forces, expedites growth and so for the person that doesn't know how to share themselves or talk about themselves. I get that. I get it. Especially, I can't say it's me personally that I get it, but I can understand that conceptually especially if you've been socialized seem female because you probably never been asked what the fuck you like and what you want to be doing. Like it's a thing I understand, but if you're like, I want to start this business, well, now's the time that we're going to learn.

And again, I'll circle back to fucking love Instagram folks because of this. It's such an incredible tool and it's free. Even if you're trying to grow a business, you will learn about yourself. You will become confident by doing the thing. You can build this body of work. You can create this set of data, if you will, that you can go back and start looking at it.

Right? So if you're like, I don't know how to share myself. I don't know what I like. Post everything, post your whole fucking day, post all of the things. And you're going to see patterns. You're going to see from a, from a business perspective, you're going to see what you like talking about and actually what you're the best at talking about and what the problem you're the best at solving from a kind of lifestyle perspective, people will pick for you.

That's one of the coolest parts. And you could kind of shift things if you're like, Oh, but I don't want them to pick that. I need to, I need to get my shit together. That's, that's bad that they're sending me that. But people will pick for you. They're going to pick your knowables. They're going to pick the things that they're like.

People will just be associating me with garbage trucks. Folks, I don't like garbage trucks, they're disgusting. I don't correct people, but it is the recycling truck. Very different. The garbage truck is disgusting, but the recycling truck has a mechanical arm. I put it in my stories and now people associate that with me.

But this just comes down to in terms of figuring out how you want to share yourself and how to share yourself. It literally comes down to sharing yourself. Stories are a phenomenal, phenomenal way to do that. And I get it. It can be hard, but like, we could sit here and try and go into the fucking psychology of it, of why it's hard.

Or you could just like, go do it because you're like, I want this outcome. I want to build a business. I want to go help people. Okay, well then here's one of the steps. Figure out how to learn, learn how to be okay sharing yourself, which starts with sharing yourself. You do a little bit, you don't have to put your kids in it.

You get to be in full control of how much you share and you just go one, one little bit at a time. 

JillFit: You know, what's interesting about that is when I, when people are scared to share some of this stuff, right? We have all these sensitivities around it. We have people think I'm trying to be somebody and I'm like, but you are trying to be somebody.

You're trying to be someone successful. You're trying to be someone who's making money online. But but there is this feeling of like does people think I think I'm a coach. And I'm like but you are. But when you break it down, like I've had people say to me Well, I'm just scared to do that or you know, I'll say well, let's talk about that.

Let's say you do it. What could someone possibly say and we like literally go through the whole thing. So I had this gal I was coaching her on one of our FBA calls and she was scared to post and I go, well, what are you scared of? Let's go through it. Like, what could someone possibly say? She goes that the caption is too long.

And I was like, okay, so let's, so let's say someone said that, right? That's a lot of stuff you just wrote. What would you say? And it was just like, yeah, it is. There's some, there's just something so powerful. And I think you're so good at this. And I think this is why people are attracted to you is you own it.

You know, and that, to me, that energy of just fucking owning it, like, I don't, like, I'm not gonna read that fucking book, right? Like, just owning it, right? Yeah, I'm gonna write a long ass caption. Read it or don't. Read it or don't. Read it or don't, right? Or someone's gonna say, um, you know, oh, she's, she thinks she's… You know, trying to be an influencer. And I'm like, well, yeah, I am because I want to make money. You're just in this make money. I'm like, I am though, right? Like I want to help people too. So I think there's something, I think at a high level, we talk about this. Like the, the message overall is yes.

Understand yourself. It takes, you know, quizzes, personal, all of the things you love, personality tests, astrology, whatever, to be like, that's me. But then, own it. Own it. At the end of the day, I always like going to worst case scenario, because I'm like, I'm about to post this. What's someone going to potentially say or do?

And I'm like, if that happened, what would be my response? I'd be like, thumbs up. I'd be like, cool. Sorry, bro. I don't know. Like, it's not nearly as scary as we think it is. But for some reason, we don't think about it. We just go, I'm scared. I can't do that. We don't actually identify why or what we're scared of.

When we actually do, it's actually not, someone's like, Jill is trying to, be an online coach. I'm like, yeah, I am trying to be an online coach is literally what we're doing. So own it. And that energy, the ownership energy is so contagious and people want to be around people doing shit. And so you can continue to just play it safe and, you know, not do all the things that are required.

Or you can just rip the band aid off and go for it. And then when these small little things come up, I guarantee you'll be able to handle them. But I think in your mind, they're so much bigger than they actually are in reality. 

Maestro: Every time, you know, the scariest thing about anything is thinking about it.

Once you're in it, you're like, well, I'm in it and I have to do this thing. That's like the, what Jill just said is, is. It in terms of how do you stand out online? You own your shit. That's literally it. You own your shit. And this isn't about shit talking. It's however you are, whatever you believe, whatever it is that you are the best at doing, whatever it is that your values are, whoever it is that you want to help, you own it.

It's as simple as that. One of the things we see is that people kind of going into many directions and I get it. We understand why you do this and, you know, humans as a social species, we understand that. And I think the reason I start to get so passionate about speaking about this, and I think Jill's the same way, is because we just want to help you.

And I'm like, if I can give someone a shortcut, there are very few shortcuts, right? The shortcut is typically doing the work, but if I can open someone's eyes to something, if I can provide, look to provide some sort of reassurance about something, I'm going to do it. And if you want to take it, great. And if you don't, that's fine too.

The thing I see slow people down is this, where they just, they're scared to do it. They're scared to own it. And I'm like, this is, this is the answer. You can take a million more personality tests. You can do whatever the fuck else you want to do. Or we can get started with baby steps, which is fine of owning it, of working towards owning who do I, what do I believe?

What do I like? What do I want to say? I get, I get, you know, it's like the most like crazy thing to start off with. Take the baby steps, but that is the way. That you're going to stand out in a space.

JillFit: You know, this is something I always think about and maybe we don't talk about this today, but this is something as a coach, I'm always trying to figure out.

And I know you work with a lot of people. I work with like, probably, you know, 200 people every month in their business and all the various capacities. And I'm always trying to figure out why some people take off and why other people don't like, cause I'm always like, what are best practices? Right? And so I think you hit the nail on the head.

Yeah. When you said, if there was a shortcut, it's this. I do see that audacity is a little bit of a cheat code. You know, I have people who I've worked with who within, you know, within 12 months are making six figures online. I've had other people who have been spinning their wheels for five years. And the people who have the most success or the fastest success just literally were like, fuck it, I'm doing it.

Like it, like at some point you have to just be like, yeah, like, you don't have to wait for permission. Like you can't wait for someone to anoint you ready or you're an expert or you're good enough. You just have to be like, you know what, fuck it. Like, I guess I'm just going to do it. And I know it's so easy, it's much easier said than done, but it really, at the end of the day, that really is it.

And one of my favorite things to, to tell my students is the person who has the right to do it as the one doing it. The person with the right to do it is the one doing it. We can all sit around and be like, that person doesn't even have a certification. That person, you know, isn't even lean or whatever judgment, but I'm like the fucking out there and they're having massive success or having enough success that you noticed.

So I think when you find yourself maybe criticizing that someone is further ahead or they're more successful than they quote unquote should be, maybe you can take a page from their book and just said, fuck it and just went for it. So if there is a cheat code, it really is audacity. I do believe. Yeah. 

Maestro: I think, you know, if we want to, um, dissect that and like, why, why is that?

Because people want a fucking outcome folks. That's why. Because when you go and buy something, you want the outcome that's promised. When you go and buy something, you want a solution. You don't buy a maybe you don't, you're like, I want this. And this person says they can help me. And even if the guarantee isn't necessarily like specific word for word,

ideally, yes, that would be like 100%, but it's good when it's like actual physical goods, then yes, you want the thing that you fucking are paying for. But when it comes to services, and Jill said it earlier, we're in business of trust, if they trust that you're going to help them, that's where they're going to go to.

Right? Yes, their goals may change along the way, but they trust that you will be there to help them get an outcome. That person who has the audacity to go and do things typically have the confidence to go and do things. And so they're showing up in that way and that's what people are attracted to because they want an outcome.

JillFit: They're attracted to certainty, right? Like we all are, right? That's one of the key needs of the human brain is certainty, which is why if you're in a sales conversation, you have to, at some point say, I can definitely help you with that. Like people need to feel that they need to feel like, Hey, I got you.

I've done this a million times. Like it's the energy you show up with. And I will validate, I think women in general, as a generalization, women have a harder time with this. I think it's a very like masculine thing to be like, I mean, even if they don't, even if they probably aren't qualified, they'll say they're qualified.

But so I do want to validate that I feel like especially my women tend to struggle with this a little bit more because they think they doubt themselves, their competency a little bit more. They're like, but what if there's that one person who I can't get a result? And there are, they're probably going to be people in your career who you can't get a result for.

That happens to everybody over time you start to identify patterns and maybe you turn that client away and things like that. People need to feel safe enrolling with you. They have to feel safe investing with you. They have to feel you've done a million times, even if you haven't. So there needs to be a level of confidence, conviction, and certainty transferred in that conversation.

So you need to be able to say, I can definitely help you with that. And if you can't, don't say that. But if you're like, oh, this person's an ideal client, then you have to say that because they need to feel, and also they're I always think about this in sales conversations. People are, they're more scared than you are.

So if you're new and you're like, I don't know if I can get them a result, they're going to pick up on that because they're also scared it's not going to work. So you need to come over the top with your ability. And even if things start going sideways, I always say, if you guarantee anything, guarantee one on one coaching.

It's like- I mean, you could always pivot, you could workaround for shit, you could tweak stuff on the fly. Like if you can guarantee anything, it's one-on-one coaching. So don't feel scared to guarantee an outcome when it comes to one-on-one. 'cause you can change shit anytime, right?

Mm-hmm. And so I, I think that at some point you have to really have a confidence in yourself. And I do think that, you know, reps and building a body of work, You know, social proof and all that kind of stuff really helps. 

Maestro: Big time. Ties in. I love that. Jill said that I'm cognizant of the time we're going to wrap it up, wrap it up shortly, but love that Jill brought it back to one on one because I think about PT.

And we, it is, it's like, PT is like the epitome of like being in the business of trust and like the relating component of things, because even if that person, their back pain stays, but you refer them to somebody who helps them. Cause you're like, this isn't, this isn't it. Like we've been doing these things, Jill, and I've seen this before and this is not going the direction.

I think I like, let's go to this person. They will still fucking trust you. They will still fucking thank you. Cause you still helped them. Right. So yes, they came in and you're like, yeah, I can definitely help you with this SI joint stuff because everything from the initial look like you could. Right. Yes. We can talk about Anna and the people that like can definitely guarantee results, but even she will tap in, you know, tap in Missy.

I almost said Missy Elliot. Her name is not Missy Elliot, but that's almost who came it's not, it's not Missy Elliot, but she'll tap in Missy and be like, this is like, I get did got most of the way with this, but there was still a little bit of this. And so even if she had to refer out that person who she was working with, because there was a one on one capacity and there's that trust and that relationship building is still grateful.

That person's still like you help me. I'll still refer people to you because you helped, even though you didn't, weren't the end person that solved my problem. So love that Jill brought that in of the one on one, which. Comes full circle from what we were saying earlier in terms of if you're just starting out or you're, even if you're not just starting out, but then you don't have a super full client roster, that's amazing.

Cause then you can offer more time. You're able to guarantee more of these results and then you're able to build these relationships so that if that result isn't coming, it's okay. You can pivot, you can refer out. Um, all right. 

JillFit: Self trust, which is really ultimately what you're talking about, right? Is like, you got to take on your first client, right?

You got to trust yourself enough to just be like, all right, take it on my first client. So maybe self awareness, self trust, build your confidence, audacity, rip the bandaid off. Let's go.

Maestro: Writing things down. Like, I'm thinking about what next, next, uh, episode. So each of these episodes, the four parts, we have a different theme.

Um, so I'm just writing things down. We did not take questions this episode folks, because this episode came out before the first one released. And when the first one released, Jill was like, Hey, if you got questions, slide into Maestro's DMs. Don't do that. Because. I made a Google form. So if you have questions, that link is in the show notes.

So if you listened to the first episode, then you've already seen it. We'll drop it in this one as well. Um, and we will take questions if you have questions and we will answer them on the show. So no questions getting answered this time, but that is okay. And we got different topic coming for the next two episodes as well, which will be on October 16th will be our third one and then our fourth business and bullshit with my bestie will be on October 23rd. I have a bullshit to ask about, bring up, uh, but is there anything else you want to throw in there? 

JillFit: No, I think that was great. Yeah. Hit a lot of different things there. 

Maestro: I love this. So again, folks, if you want this to become like a staple, its own show, let us know. Cause we don't build stuff unless the people want it.

That's another free business lesson for you. All right. So the bullshit that I'd like for, to bring up today and have you talk about isn't actually bullshit. It's quite remarkable. You wrote a romance novel. 

JillFit: I did. I know, it's very off brand for me. 

Maestro: Jill's a whole ass person. 

JillFit: I know. Well, the best thing about you is you, you definitely, you thrive on certainty.

You like to, things to make sense. Like I think most people do, but I'd be, I'm surprised at how many people are okay with things not making sense. They're just go through life with nothing making sense. And I'm like, don't you want to figure this out? And they don't, but you like figuring people out. And so there's been a few times in our friendship where I've been like, Oh, I like this.

And you're like, yep, I am a whole ass person. Um, so yeah, actually in 2013, I wrote an 82, 000 word. romance novel. It took me six months. And I was, um, reading a lot of romance at the time. And I was like at the time talking about like owning shit, I was really embarrassed by that to be honest. Like back then, cause I was like, this is really weird.

And like, I don't know. I just, I was thinking like it was 50 shades of gray and like, you know, it was just so much buzz around it. You know what the number one genre is? That people read is fucking romance because all of these women, like I was mid thirties, right? Being like, I, you know, want to read these.

I want to see these like, and I'm not like, I mean, maybe it's like, it's like female porn, right? It's kind of like female porn. So romance novels, if you are, and I know a lot of people do, I feel like this is more definitely more mainstream now. But I, there was just, there was some things that I just wanted to exist.

There were some scenes I wanted to see played out and being how I am, I was like, I write for a living. I could write this book right now. I'd written 700 something blogs. I was like, I've read so many romances. What could be hard about it? And I treat it like a job. I literally went to the coffee shop every single day, Monday through Friday around lunchtime.

And I wrote for several hours and I had a whole outline. I actually had it edited and then it just came back with too much red on it and I just gave it up. So that's where it died. Yeah, that's where it died. But 

Maestro: Who did, who edited it? Where, what? 

JillFit: Yeah. One of my best friends at the time was an editor for a magazine.

So, she had some editor friends, so she referred me to someone else who did it. 

Maestro: Would you circle back on that now and like, is this thing, like, would you get this thing published? Would you sell it? 

JillFit: I would. Yeah, I would. Yeah, for sure. I definitely, I mean, the writing is not as good. I'm a better writer now, for sure.

That was 10 years ago, right? So, I'm definitely a better writer now and for some reason after that I kind of stopped reading romance for a while. I stopped reading books entirely. I was like, I was reading a lot more like, you know. Um, business and psychology and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I might go back to it, we'll see.

Maestro: I think you folks listening, you hear though, like, when she first said that she wrote a romance novel, I was like, what? But everything else besides what the genre was so on brand of like, I want this thing to exist. I'm going to make it exist. Six months. I'm like, you wrote a whole book in six months.

Amazing, like I had been reading this and I was like, I think I could do this. I trust myself to go and try and do this and treating it like a job. Like all of that. So on brand, but the romance novel, I was literally like, I don't know if you've ever watched, uh, you watch, uh, what is that? Um, family guy, but in one of the scenes he does Stewie, his head, like go sideways.

And I was like, literally did that. When Jill says she wrote a romance novel, I was like, well. 

Now, you know, now people are curious what's in there. I'm sure they are. I'm curious. Yeah. 

JillFit: Maybe it will be, you know, maybe we'll dig it out. You know, one of the reasons why I did it too, is because I was kind of bored in my business.

I was like, I just need more creative. Like I need to feel more creative. Right. So that actually helped me being like being a passion project. And I like working on something like that. I like that. I'm working towards something. I'm very like outcome driven. So I like that. I was like, and I had an out, I remember when I had the outline and I was getting down to the last few chapters, like I couldn't wait to get to the coffee shop to write it.

I was that close. So yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe we'll bring it out sometime. 

Maestro: Did you, I'm guessing I already know the answer. I just have questions about this. Did you did you read some blog or course on how to write a book or you're just like, I'm going to write a book. I've read a lot of them. I have an idea of what I want this to look like.

JillFit: Yeah. Nope. I never read or took a course on how to write a book. 

Nope. Just wrote it. 

Maestro: And you're like, this is it. Just wrote it. Were the characters based on real people? 

JillFit: Uh, nope. 

Maestro: That's fascinating. 

JillFit: Yeah. It's called Sin City Secrets takes place in Vegas. 

Maestro: Jill, publish it, come on.

JillFit: You're going to do the audio for me. You're going to record the audio. I'm going to have you read it out loud. Get an audible. 

Maestro: It's so good. So good. So good. All right. I see the time. Jill, you want to wrap this up? What announcements? Do we do an announcement? Do 

we,

JillFit: I think that's all the announcements we have.

Um, make sure you guys check out the legacy interest page. We are going to be hosting and get this on your radar. We are going to be hosting a live call with us on October 30th, which is a Monday. Um, we are getting that together, all the details for you guys soon, but right now it's October one, so we don't have the recording this on October 1st.

So we actually don't have that quite yet, but when we do, we'll put it in the show notes, hopefully it will be in there next. It will be in this episode show notes for you guys to take a look at. And make sure you block that on your calendar is me at 7 p. m. Eastern 4 p. m. Pacific on Monday, October 30th.

Come and hang with us. Get your business questions answered. We're going to teach a little bit and it's, we're going to hang out. It's gonna be fun. So business and bullshit live. Let's call it. 

Maestro: There it is. Business and bullshit with my bestie live folks. One last lesson: Work with somebody who completes you right?

Don't be scared to lean in the things that you like and let the other person do the things that they like. I was like Jill what's the logistical? What's the What's the stuff we got to talk about? She's like I got this. Meanwhile when we're talking about the episodes I'm like I'd like to plan this, I'd like to edit these things. Lean into the things that you like to lean into.

That's the best part about having a partner. Right? All right. Anything else, JB? That's it. Maybe next week you folks will learn why I call her JB. Maybe, maybe not. You gotta tune in. 

JillFit: Could be. Wait, where's your bullshit? I guess last week was your bullshit a little bit. 

Maestro: It was, but I, I come up with the questions, so I, you could, you can ask me anything you want Jill to bring up for bullshit, but I was like, I would like to throw that out there.

JillFit: Okay. I'm going to have some next week. All right, y'all. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for your time and attention. We don't take it for granted. We love that you listened to this. Let us know if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, uh, Google form is in the show notes and we'll see you next week.

That is. Until next time friends, JillFit and Maestro, 

out.

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