Full Transcript: MOTM #572: One of the Few with Dr. Uchenna “UC” Ossai

[Transcript starts at 2:19]

  Hey you guys, Maestro here. And welcome back to another episode of Maestro in the Mic. And maestro on the mic. I'm reading this other thing. My goodness. Maestro on the mic. Today I have with me a very special guest.

She reached out and I was like, Oh, hell. Yes, we need to collab. I need to have you on the podcast. Hopefully you've heard of her. If you haven't, today's the day you're going to get your world rocked. She is an assistant professor at the university of Texas. She has, she's a DPT. She's one of us. She did a residency.

She's one of those in women's health. She did it. She did the whole thing. And she is an A A S E C T. I had to practice that a few times because I was like stuttering when I did it the first time. Uh, she's certified sexuality counselor, which I'm actually super pumped to talk about. And she's actually the only, the only black physio, uh, physiotherapist, we'll say, with that designation.

Just if you go on her Instagram, if you follow it or her at all, if you just. Hear her words, they are pure electricity and I am so, so, so, so, so stoked to have her on today, but I'm going to stop rambling. So without further ado, welcome to the show. My good friend, my newly good friend, Dr. Uchenna Osai. You see, welcome.

What up? Thank you so much for having me. I am So Ike to

do this, dude, I gotta say something right off the bat. So, uh, I follow you on Instagram. I was reading through your, you know, going through your posts. And I'm not gonna lie. I was like, what is this bourbon Tellez? What is wrong with me? I don't know why.

For some reason I thought like I just had like a Louisiana vibe, a New Orleans vibe. And I was like, Oh, is this like French? What? I even looked it up. You see, I looked it up and I was like, I should probably just listen, she's saying tails and I'm just gonna put it out there, I'm not even gonna hide that.

Bourbon Tales, so thank you for all your Bourbon Taleses that you share with us, uh, but I'm gonna pass the mic over to you and let you tell the people what you want to tell them about who you are. Who I am. I know it's a big question. Dang, I mean I think you,

you got it pretty good in the intro, but uh, yeah, I mean, I I have to, I have to explain the Bourbon Tales or the Bourbon Tales.

What's wrong with me? Let me just get into that first. I think, uh, you know, growing up, I've always been that kid who has been a little extra, you know, like I had an imaginary friend, you know, I named my outie belly button Marvin because I was obsessed with Marvin the Martian. So I've always been a little different.

And so when I was putting together Um, UC logic. I, my sister, I, you know, I told my sister cause she's my sounding board all the time and she said, you know, you need to, you need to make it, you need to make this video thing you want to do different. And I said, well, I want to make people comfortable talking about sex.

And I can't do that. Like, I'm, you know, this isn't like, you know, reading rainbow, even though I kind of wish we did have a sexy time reading rainbow situation going on. But, um, But I said, I think people like it when you have a cocktail, you know, and I love bourbon, like bourbon is my, I call it, I call it brown water.

It's my water. And, and so I was like, well, bourbon tails. And I thought tails, like, you know, the way I spelled it was different. And people would be able to identify me out of a crowd if I just did a Z instead of an S. So that's why it's bourbon tail, tail ez, tail

ez, bourbon tail ez. I don't know what, why am I like this?

I literally, I was like. I have to tell her that I did this. I can't keep this to myself. That is, uh, yi yi. Yi yi yi. So, I'm gonna jump in then, because I got questions. What got you into this? So in your bio, right, it says that your clinical and research interests include sexual dysfunction in marginalized populations, particularly women of color and the LGBTQ plus community.


Yes. Where'd that come

from? Um,

you know, that's a really good, good point. I think, a good question. I think that it actually started, um, I've always had an interest in, Communities and community how, uh, you know, I grew up in, in Dallas, what, what big D and, uh, to very, very African, very Nigerian parents, like Holy, Holy Jesus.

And, um, and I went to an all girl prep school that had Ursula, it was called Ursula Academy of Dallas. It had nuns on campus. They lived on campus and we had this model called Servium. So you had to serve. You always, that was like core principle. Like, even though we were wild and crazy Catholic school girls, we were also very much into service.

And I, I, I really believed in that. And I always wanted to understand, you know, why is it that poor, poor communities don't do well? Why is it that minorities, particularly minorities who are people of color, black, black in particular, why do they not do well? You know, like I knew the history, but I didn't, I didn't make the connections.

And fast forward to my first year in, in PT school and I, I went to this public health forum and I was the only one in my class who went because I was just, I wanted to learn more and they were talking about health disparities and marginalized communities. And the cause was racism and sexism and, and homophobia and, and kind of making those connections and looking at all how these disparities were so profound.

And I thought to myself, Oh man. Surely the healthcare community is highly aware of this and they're going to teach us about this and I was very lucky in that my program did teach us about that and I had ample opportunities to learn more about that and I was able to do an Albert Schweitzer Fellowship where I spent my last year of DPT school.

In addition to being on clinicals, I I was in a fellowship where I focus on doing community health interventions, where I focus on the homeless LGBTQ plus communities, particularly the youth, homeless youth in Chicago. So every Tuesday and Thursday from 9 to midnight, I worked with the night ministry and I did this little thing called the wellness circle where I worked with all these homeless kids who were trans, gay, whatever, who were sex workers.

Not, not for any reason other than their parents didn't believe who they were and they were kicked out of their homes or they had to escape for some reason of safety, and this is their life. And so that taught me a whole lot about health and wellness and community. And so I have, I, I, I look at my physical therapy practice a lot different than the physical therapy practice.

I know some of my colleagues do. And that's just, that's not judgment. It's just, that's my experience colored how I approach care. And that's, that's, that's my, that's my truth. And so the sexy time stuff, that was just coming from, you know, once I did my residency and I, everyone was telling, all my patients of all genders were, Saying, well, what about my orgasms?

What about my erections? What about my premature ejaculation? And I was like, uh, . I was like, I don't know, homie. I dunno. I'll, I'll look into this. And um, and so, you know, I remember talking to, um, my, my boss lady, she's like my second mom, Dr. Tracy Spitznagel. And she. She really, um, she's a superstar by the way.

Um, superhuman, superwoman, smartest person I know. She taught me everything. Um, she, she really worked hard to kind of get me some didactics around that. But I think it was a couple of years, a year after I started practicing independently that I said, okay, I need to do more learning. And so I went to university of Michigan and did their sexual health and certification program.

And, and that's when I kind of, okay. I said, huh, huh. All right, I'm going to do this. Yeah. I'm going to be the one.

Speak on that. That right there.

Yeah. So, you know, I always, when, when I, when I graduated PT school or the only reason I became a PT was to do pelvic health. Oh, wow.

Okay. Yeah. That was my,

that was my driving force.

And then I told my mom, I said, mom, mommy, You know, cause you know, my parents, you know, we're Nigerians. It's like, you must be excellent. You know, you must be excellent. And so I was like, okay, okay. I'll be excellent. And so I said, okay, I need to be excellent. I need to understand this. Let me try and do a residency.

And back in the day. Like 10, 10 years ago, it was, it was still a new thing. And so, uh, I was the first resident at Wash U and, um, the first women's health, pelvic health resident. And so that was a really interesting experience for me. And so when I did that, I said, okay, all right. So I, I'm going to start creating programs when I go back to wherever I work.

So it was Houston. Okay. And so I, I, I created a program at Houston Methodist Hospital. And then, and then I get to the University of Michigan and I was like, Oh, you know, there aren't that many PTs. And I, I just leaned into it. I don't mind being like one of the few in the crowd. I don't mind it. I'm good with it.

There it is. I'm comfortable with it. Has it always been like that? I've always been like that. I've always been like that. And I think, um, I mean, and don't get me wrong. I have a lot of like internal anxiety about it. But that's, that's always been my way. And it's not to be the one just to be the one.

There's a need, so I'll do it. There's a necessity, Then I'll, then I'll work on that. We have a problem, then I'll work on a solution.

I'm smiling ear to ear over here. This is just phenomenal. Like before we hopped on, uh, you see, and I would do another like little spiel that you do before you hop on the podcast.

And it's just so evident. You know, why I bring people on and the people that I want to be on this podcast. And there's always this underlying theme that ties everyone together. And then you just said it. And I was like, holy smokes, there's this X factor where certain people, and I kind of want to dive into this and see what your thoughts are.

Certain people are just willing to be the tip of the spear. And we need it if we're trying to move forward. You have to have those people, you know, there's a role for everyone as we move forward with things. But certain people, you see as one of them, uh, just don't mind being the tip of the spear. You said you've always been like this.

I want to kind of circle back to what you said about your, from your parents. Like, you must be excellent. Why?

Oh, I mean, culturally. That, we're Nigerians. Nigerians are just foundationally extra, period. So, like, we, we have to be the best, baddest, flashiest, smartest, best dressed in the room, always. Um, but actually, you know, my parents are pretty chill.

Um, particularly my mom, you know, she's, she's basically, I call like a hippie Nigerian. And, um, she's always had natural hair. She doesn't wear a ton of makeup, you know. And she's a chemist. And so, you know, she's, she's a scientist. So she's very, my mom's very practical. And my dad is a little bit more, you know, a little bit more traditional.

And I think growing up, the excellence was really about, yeah, culturally excellent, but But also excellent in that you're a black kid. You, you have to, I mean, I think people have heard this time and time again, where they talk about the black kids are told, the brown kids are told, you have to be five times as good to be viewed as just as good as the white kids.

Yeah. You have to be ten times better to be viewed the same. And then I know a lot of people say, Oh, I say that to my kids and I'm like, Nope, it's different. It's different. Especially when you're the only one in the space. Think about that. You have to be 10 times as good to be viewed as average. That's a lot of pressure to a kid.

Now, and that says a lot, right? You know, I remember I've been hearing that since I was five years old. And so that that's where like a lot of that internalized racism comes into play. You know, I mean, and during this time I've been reflecting a lot, you know, like my sister and I were what? Two of four black kids in our private school situation from age 5 to 18.

That does something to you.

Absolutely. You,

you, you spend your whole life studying white people and their behavior. You understand. And this is not, this is not a dig. You know, it might be a little uncomfortable to hear, but James Baldwin said it best. He's like, it is our survival to study white people. If we don't, we don't survive.

You've hit the nail on the head. How, how was this, how was this growing up in, you're from Texas. As soon as you, we hopped on this call and you're like, it's, I'm in Austin. And I was like, what? You grew up in Texas and you're still in Texas, like, Yeah, you got a little pride too for it. Speak on it. Believe anything you want to say.

How was that?

Well, I mean, you know what I have to say like my class growing up I you know, I grew up again private school. So my class was nice. They were polite. I didn't have a ton of like nonsense. My sister on the other hand, had a horrible kids were just explicitly racist towards her. And I still to this day, like I think about those kids, I think about their names, and I just have a little bit, I feel something about those kids.

I feel some type of way towards them. And it's, it's, and it's less, it's less about, I mean, yes, of course, there's anger, but I think there's more about You know, how that shaped how my sister viewed the world. Yeah. And by the way, my sister is a genius. Like, badass criminal defense attorney. I love it.

Cornell grad. Okay. UT law grad. She's a superstar. Excellent. I'm the black sheep in her family. God, yeah. I'm the black sheep, okay? Wow. She's ridiculous. But I think, I think it did a lot. It did a lot. And, and seeing that, and I, I saw a lot of explicit. overt racism growing up. Um, but I also had really tough African parents who kind of buffered, buffered us in a way because, you know, my father was a child soldier in the Biafran war.

So like, he was like, okay, yeah, there's that, but then there's also that. So moving forward and And I have to say, you know, my sister, she, you know, as soon as she finished high school, she went to Cornell and then I was like, you know what, I'll go to the East Coast too. I just wanted to get out of Texas.

Like, I was like, well, I just want to be uncomfortable. Um, and not in the way that I, I, I was comfortable in, in the Texas environment, but I was not really comfortable in it either. And I wanted to, I wanted to stretch my, my mindset. And so, so I went to Boston for college and it was the best decision I ever made.


I, I, I think that, you know, I feel very blessed to have grown up where I grew up, but I'm also very lucky. And I won the lottery with my family. And, um, you know, yes, there was pressure for excellence, but there was a lot of love and support. I was very lucky kid. I am a very lucky kid.

You went to Boston?

Yeah, I went to Boston University.

What are you doing?


Go Terriers. I think that's their mascot. I think that's their mascot. I don't even know. Oh my God. I don't even know. I don't know. I'm a terrible, I'm a terrible alumni. Like, I'm, I'm terrible. I don't know anything.

Uh, I think, I think that, I think. So with everything that's going on right now.

So this episode will go out on, I don't know, uh, probably next week, I'm going to push this one up. So if you guys, if you guys are listening to this on the day it drops, it will be. June 29th, but podcasts live on forever. So who knows when, you know, people will ultimately listen to this. I, and I kind of like the pseudo evergreen nature of this, um, or I should say everlasting, not only evergreen, but right now we're, we're, we're deep into the great awakening.

Uh, and I'd love to know how, I got two questions there, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a good host and just ask one at a time with all the things that are going on right now. I am certain that. You have been called up that people are like, I need your help. I need your help. I need your help. I need your help.

Like, I want to hear your voice. How has that been for you? How does that feel?

Um, can I talk about it professionally? I'll first talk about it personally, and then I'll talk about it professionally. Um, so personally, my friends, the friends that are close around me. don't ask me to do their labor. I've chosen my friends.

Well, they're woke


order to be in my circle. You have to be, and not just like passively, you know, black lives matter. You have to be hands dirty. Right. And, um, because, because there's, because I code switch a lot because I know how to play the game. And I think that my, my close friends have not asked to do.

Ask me to do any labor. I've had discussions. with some of them, um, and some of the friends I've had a long time who aren't, who I don't see a lot. They're not as woke, you know, I might have to check them a little bit, but that's, that's friendship. It's like, you don't rank friends for you to be comfortable all the time, you know, like I'm going to tell you about yourself right now.

I love you, but you need to get it together. Um, you know, um, but all done with love. All done with love, but, but also like know that like right now I'm tired. So this is it, like, don't come to me about this, like, I'm going to need a minute, let me recover and then I'll, I'll, I can help you out later, but right now I need a minute.

And, um, so that's, that's been pretty good, I think. And I think, but professionally it's been very difficult. Um, you know, I think I've, I think at any black person, especially if you're in a position of. of leadership. And for me also to understand that I'm, I'm assistant professor in a medical school, not a physical therapies program, a medical school.

Um, so I'm the only PT on faculty and, and one of few black people on faculty, like, and when I say few, I mean, one of three. Um, and it is, it's, it's, uh, it's been very, it's been very, it's allowed me to acknowledge what my eyes were open to the entire time. If that makes any sense to the people that are listening, I already, I know where I, I know, I know the den that I'm sitting in.

It's just that for survival, you can't always acknowledge the nonsense. You have to hustle. You have to move through. You need to be productive. You have to do what you need to do. You have to take care of your patients. You have to take care of your students. You have to take care of your colleagues. You have to just be.

But this experience I think has forced us to kind of keep our eyelids wide open and it can be a little, it can be a little rough. And I really, I've, I mean, I'll be honest with you. I've had a few extra therapy sessions. You


I've, I've really had to kind of protect myself and I've had to, I've, I've brought in those friends who, who can handle it in.

Um, because Because it's a world where not only do I have to deal with the workplace racism that's just as oppressive. Please, I want people to understand that the workplace racism is horribly oppressive. I think probably does more damage, long term damage, than the overt racism that you're seeing with police.

And do not get me wrong, police brutality is a problem, not just in the U. S., worldwide. But that's the stuff that, like, if people understood all of the ducking and weaving that you have to do to get through a day with the microaggressions that one has to live with, especially in positions where you're in positions of higher power, um, that, that is, that's rough.

And that's why Black women with terminal degrees have the same health status as a white woman who doesn't have a high school degree. The stress is unreal.

The stress is unreal. I mean, I'm just being, I'm just being honest, honest, honest.

I love it. I love it. I love it. This is uh, it's like a death by a thousand cuts here. It's just right over and over and over and over again. Can I ask you a bigger question? An overarching, by bigger I mean overarching question.

Yeah. Based on everything that's going on and it's really been just like five minutes. Like this, you know, yeah, it's not like a hot second,


I had to ask like, what is your knee jerk or what is your gut feeling? Do you feel hopeful that, and we can just talk about the workplace if you want, although we know it's a reflection of bigger things, but what is your, your, your, your feeling?

Are you like, yeah, I have hope that maybe something's going to change or you're kind of like, uh, where are you at with things?

Honestly, my gut, I think people are, I think it's, I think it's positive. I'm going to, I'm cautiously saying this.


Um, I think it's really positive. I think that people who have been woke prior to this, they're, they're probably just way more aggressively woke.

I think it just pushes everyone forward.


if you are a woke person and you're like, yes, Black Lives Matter. And now you're like, okay. What do I need to do? Let me disrupt some nonsense. Let me use my social capital to stand in front of, in between my black sister and this cop. You know what I mean? You know, if you're a person that's kind of like, I'm like on the fence, you know, like you're probably off the fence right now.

You're like, yeah, this is some, this is some nonsense. But you're probably not at that level where you're, that other person is like, you know, getting their hands dirty. I think, you know, I think this is one of those times where people are probably going to be studying their role in this, in this, like, what's my role in not in, in, in dismantling this.

Um, so I think I'm, I'm very, very extremely cautiously optimistic. Um, and we'll just see, but I think the, the, the lift is not on black people or indigenous people of color. If the lift is, is really for white people, this is, this is. This is the, this is their burden. And I think that that's, that's what needs to be said plainly.

Um, that often isn't said

because it's hard to hear. I mean, even

now as I say that, I'm like, Ooh, was that too strong? Right? Like, isn't exactly that. Ah, you know,

but it's the truth. It is. Ah, but I've been thinking it for years. I just


say it. The, the burden is there, but I'm gonna say. You came out with a new course today because you're still like, I'm going to help the matter.

Who's the burden? It is. I, you know, you see is all about excellence and showing the fuck up. So can you talk about that? Yeah. Yeah.

So I created this course and I I'm really proud of it mainly because, Oh, it's called intersections of racism and power, healthcare, redefined. Um, I created it because, you know, I've been, I've been watching, I've been watching the past.

I've been watching conversations. I, you know, and I practice what I preach. So, you know, my social media has a whole, it's, it's a lot of like social justice people, you know, just, just watching what they do. And, um, and I have to say that, you know, I putting my professor cap on, I wanted to structure this, you know, So that people can feel safe to fall on their face.

You know, here's, here's a situation, right? So when I started working with trans patients years ago, you know, I was, I was going to conferences. I was taking classes. I was like, okay, no, one's talking about taking care of transgender patients. You know, like what the hell? And I was like, I'm ready. You know, I took my courses.

I read the books. I listened to the podcast and I was like, I am ready. And then I get, I get with this, my first trans patient. And I misgender her and And she told me about myself, which I was like, oh man. And I, you know, in my instinct, my knee jerk, my knee jerk is like, I've done all this work to help you, right?

I've done all this work. And I looked at my knee jerk inside and I was like, no, no, no, no. This is a whole new language for me. I need to, I need to check my ego and I need to focus on getting it right, not being right.

And, and that's from Brene Brown, by the way. And she, she just said it way better. Um, but that's, that's, that's the core of it. Is like, we just have to focus on getting it right, not being right. We're gonna fall. We're gonna make mistakes. I miss gendered patients. For a long time because I wasn't around transgender patients.

Mm-Hmm. . I didn't have a, I didn't have a ton of trans friends. Mm-Hmm. , you know, I didn't, I just knew that this was a service that needed, that needed more of me. Mm-Hmm. More of us. Mm-Hmm. group that needed more of us, right? Yes. And so I was like, let me just get my hands in in here. Let me just get in the ring.

But it's more than just getting in the ring. It's knowing when to sit down and be quiet. It's knowing when to, okay, let me use my, my privilege. to advance you here. It's knowing when to apologize. It's knowing when to pat yourself on the back. And that's what this course is about. Like I'm creating this course.

Not to make anybody feel bad. You're gonna feel bad. I mean, of course one feels bad if they have inherited advantage that they had nothing to do with, right?

Hopefully they feel bad.

But once you know, you have it. Yeah, just like, you know, like just like some people have inherited disadvantages. It's, it's odd.

It's cool. But we, we need to know our history. We need to understand the stats and we also need to know how to dismantle it. And that's what this course is. And, and, you know, I'm not new, you know, like I've, I've lectured on this for years, you know, at WCPT, all these conferences, you know, I've, I've been doing this for years.

And I just thought to myself, well, let me just put something together. And make it, put a little sprinkle, you see sprinkle dust on it. And, uh, hopefully, hopefully it works. So what's the structure of this thing? Yeah. So it's on, it's going to be on zoom, obviously because of Rona virus. We can't really, we can't really do much.

Um, it is going to be kind of hybrid. Like it's going to be more like PowerPoint discussion, but a lot of it is going to be, yeah. Okay. I'm going to give you the data and now we're going to deconstruct this. How does this apply to your life? What does this mean? Because I think people are told the history separately and then solutions separately, but they don't know how to make those lined connections.

I still think people struggle with like, what does slavery have to do with it? I still think people struggle with what is Jim Crow. Yeah. You know, I still, I still think people struggle with that because I think they miss the in between, you know, they, they miss, They miss how these federal laws come into place, where they come from, and, and the stereotypes that have kind of carried them have evolved over decades and to kind of current our current language, you know,

I'm still, I'm still like a second behind you.

I'm sorry. I'm like, You're right. People don't understand that connection. What in the hell? You're right, though. I saw some stuff back there, and I'm like, Oh God, Jesus. She's, she's, she's right. Oh my gosh. And

listen, I'm not a, I'm not a historian, you know, but I've, I've found over the years that it was my responsibility to learn this stuff.

And, and, That, that is just, that was important to me.

When, when is this? Is it an ongoing course? I want you to push this cause I want my listeners to know about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, absolutely. The course is July 18th. It's from eight o'clock to one 30.

What time zone

is that? That's central, sorry, central, uh, standard time.

And so I was trying to kind of make it in between for people in London and people in California, like, Oh my

God. Yep. So,

um, so it's, it's actually just, I'm, I'm just have one date right now. We'll see how the registration goes. Um, and this is my first offering. So, you know, I may decide to record it and just, you know, for people who don't want it, who don't have the opportunity to do a live class, maybe put it up later as a recorded course.

Um, but I think that, I think that the having a live course to have someone to kind of guide you through and have that discussion

is really

important. And that's the value of the course, even so that I have an office hour,

you know, I

purpose, I purposely did this course. Five and a half hours, because this is a lot, this is emotionally heavy stuff.

Like I teach this stuff and some, sometimes I'm just like, man, that was a day. I need a drink and a drink and that's about it. I don't even need food, but giving people two weeks to process the information, put it into practice. And then the office hour is going to be on July 30th 630, where I'm just going to be on zoom and people can pop in.

And we can kind of talk together or like individually, depending on how many people are there, just like a regular office hours that you have with your professor.

I love it.

And you, you talk through because this is, this is, this is the time where people actually like, this is one of those issues where you actually do need to talk it through.

You do need to kind of learn it, process it, and then have another round of discussion.

Can you tell me? Sure. for having me. I'm sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. And then I'll ask.



no, I'm done.

I am fascinated with power. I think it's at this heart of everything that we see it's happening and you've included it in your title.

And that first off the picture that you did for the announcement was fire. I was like, Oh


All right.

Damn. That's good. I have to give a shout out to Hannah Sable Pingal. She is an amazing graphic artist. She's actually an undergraduate student at Stanford. Um, she's an intern at O school that I'm also on the medical board for, but she's amazing and Andrea Barica, the founder of O school who pushed me to do this.


shout out

to those people.

Yes. Just crushed it. Uh, it's amazing. She crushed it. Like, wow. She crushed it. It was fire. That was so good. That stopped the scroll big time. I was like, oh, what is this? This is incredible. Remarkable. Yeah. So you have in that title, in your title, Power. Yes. Obviously, this is a, this is a, a five hour course, five, plus five, I know, five hour plus course.

But can you just, for my own brain, can you just give me like a, a snippet into your world into your thoughts of And why as to why you included that that word power and how you're bringing that in to the discussion

Well racism is a system of oppression.

It's about power assigning power to one race We can't talk about racism without talking about power Because one of the core solutions to really being a true ally You And to dismantling it is giving up your power. It's giving up your power seat, giving up your capital, giving up your social standing to say, no, this is wrong.

I need to, I need to name this.

And, and, and I think that that, that concept is almost lost on people. I mean, I have a little, I have a little story and my friend's gonna kill me, so I won't tell, I won't tell you his name, but we went to PT school together. And he's like, I called him like white boy wonder. Like he was just beautiful, like built, you know, he had like muscles, all the ladies loved him.

And, you know, and he, we were really good friends. And I used to give him, we would have these discussions about race all the time. And for, for three years, we would debate, we would talk. And I said, Man, do you know how much power you have in your cisgender, white, male skin, you know, like, and you, and I said, and you know, and you're a woke dude, please speak to it because there's a power that you have.

There's an inherited power that you have. It doesn't mean that I'm powerless.

It just means that he has this very specific power.

Yeah. You're welcome.

And it's, it's really about the understanding, the interchange or exchange of power, however you want to look at it. And that's, that's, that's a core, a core foundational concept when you're thinking about racism. Yes.

I, I'm stoked for this course.

That, that word has been at the heart of my Google searches, if you will. Um, just cause it's like, it's everything. It's. All this bullshit we're seeing right now with people not wanting to wear masks is power. People are trying to assert their power because they feel like they don't have control of their own life.

And they're like, this is the only way I can have control. I'm not gonna wear it. I'm not gonna do this thing. And we see it left and right. The people that are like, ah, fuck, I don't care. I'll wear a fucking mask, fine. Most of those people have a much, you know, better grasp of things. They feel much more in control of their lives.

And like, yeah, fine. That's fine. I guarantee those people that are like, fuck Dave asks, they don't let you merge in traffic either. I already know.

I already know. Exactly. Those are the people that don't let you merge. And you're like, it's like

a zipper, like a zipper. Come on, guys. You're like, oh my God.

You're already, no, I'm fucking, I'm stoked. about this. I would love to talk, and I'm not even sure of my question, but I was watching, but I'm like, it'll come as I talk, and I'm sure it will. I only keep thinking about Asperb and Tellez. It'll come as I talk, though. I, I was watching, uh, um, an IGTV the other day, I don't want to, I don't want to mispronounce their name, but Janiyah the future.

I don't know how they pronounce their name, but either way. Oh, um, so I was watching and they said a kind of phenomenal point to me that I thought where the, these more marginalized populations, specifically like the trans community has always shown up when it's a matter of moving humanity and moving society forward.

They've always shown up, they're at all the marches and this community, it's always there. And so now we're in a time where we need to be there for that community. It's not happening. And that's why we're, you know, having to call out more, but I would just, I'd love to. And she goes on to say, or they go on to say, uh, speaking about like, you know, a new system because, and I totally agreed here.

The, the. The answer is not flipping the system and giving those who don't have power, putting them in power. Cause then it's still a power. A Bower play. So, they were talking about this more dynamic system and, uh, using the, um, example of penguins, uh, because with penguins, they stand in like this spiral. I loved it.

I was like, actually, that's really smart. They, they stand in like this kind of spiral, if you will, and it, the way that the entire community survives is that, uh, Those in the center are the warmest and those on the outside are the coldest, but eventually they switch positions and those who need to be warmed up, get brought in.

And those who were really warm, like they moved to the outside. And you know, they said, who's our coldest, who's the coldest right now? And they're like, the black trans community is the coldest right now. We need to show up for them. And I, given, you know, how much you work with this community and was, you know, your knowledge.

Anything that you could say or to contribute right now, because I don't really have a question, but I just want to hear you speak and your thoughts surrounding what you've seen, how we can help, what, what's going on. It's anything.

Absolutely. I mean, I think when you're talking about, I mean, they're a hundred percent, right?

So let me just say that, um, the black trans community. is the heart and soul of a lot of the movements that we've seen in modern times. And Black trans people, particularly Black trans women, their murder rates are 20 times that of the average person. Suicide rates are high. HIV death rates are astronomical in the 10 times, 15 times, 20 times, 30 times.

Right? Because that's where we're thinking about intersections. This is where it's important. Where like, let's just like wipe the slate clean, right? So let's say we have like, a transgender person who's white. So they automatically, because Let's say they're a trans woman, right? So because they are a trans woman, they're a man that's, that they're a person that was born with a penis, but never identified as a man.

Um, society is like, no, why would you want, why would you want to be a woman? That's not, that's not okay. And there's something about that, that, that gender phobia, that, cause it's not homophobia, cause we're not talking about sexuality, we're talking about gender, right? There's something, there's something violent that occurs when a man, when a person that's perceived to be a man that has the parts of quote, what we define as a man to say, I'm a woman.

Then let's add, let's add poverty to that. And let's say this person has a physical disability. Let's say this person is not an American citizen. And then let's just cherry on top, they're black. You see those numbers? So if that white transgender woman had a, had a murder rate of five times that the average, you add all those on top and then it becomes 30.

But still, but still it's the spirit of particularly black trans women that will put themselves on the line and say, no, we want our rights. We want our human rights. We want our civil rights. And they will do it. They will do it.


know? And everyone kind of makes the mistake, you know, this is the one thing that I did agree with Dave Chappelle in his last stand up where he was talking about it's communities.

Not one community. There's a lot of communities. Right. You talk about the LGBTQIA plus communities, communities, right? Because there there's different, there's a different heartbeat and a different goal with each group. And there's, there's racism in that group. There's sexism in that group. There's homophobia in that group.

And that's what people don't seem to understand. It's about, it's about that hierarchy. It's about power.

There it is again. And when

you There it is again, you know, and so I mean a few years ago, I think it was in 2017 I spoke with my colleague Ray, Ray McDaniel They are a sexologist in Chicago Their practice is called practical audacity.

Oh and amazing practice for anyone that's trans non binary Part of the LGBTQIA plus communities should if if you want mental health, please go see Ray and and their associates and We spoke on this in the physical therapy in the physical therapy space And we were the last, I remember we were the last group.

We were the last talk. It was like three o'clock on a Saturday. Uh, but we, I was like, I was at the time, at the time, uh, Ray's pronouns were she and her. And, and I was, I said, girl.

And I was like, man, there's going to be like three people at this joint. And. And she was like, no, it's okay. We're just going to do our presentation. There were so many people.


and we talked about, we talked about the murder rate. We talked about the suicide rate. We talked about cardiovascular disease.

We talked about breast cancer. We talked about all of those things and, and how really the intervention isn't, you know, we need the best chemo. The intervention is how do we. How do we disrupt these systems of oppression at the systemic level? That is going to make the biggest change in the health of, of these communities.

I love it. I love it. Are you speaking about that in your course?




I ask, uh, cause I want to promote your shit, obviously. But, um, just kind of thinking back, thinking about, you know, what you had said earlier that kind of stuck with me, the things that you treated and things that you've seen, you've had to go to a different place to see them.

Like, it's very easy to stay where you are and think that, you know, You know, like I'm a good person. I'm anti, I'm working on being anti racist and like, what else can I do? There's just like, there's just no other people here that I live besides me. Like, what else can I. Do and you just hit the nail on the head there in terms of okay Well, what can we do from the to actually dismantle this because it's not just a matter of like, yeah If you if you live in an area and there's like only the certain people and it's like well How do I help trans people then if I don't see them?

I never went out like and I love that you talked about before like hey I you misgendered your first patient because even when you learn about so much stuff until you actually like do it Yeah It's like, not the same when we, we all know this, we've all done it in different ways, right? We all gone to PT school and then you go and actual become a PT and you're like, Oh, this is a little different.

Uh, I got to like, figure out what to do now. And

can I speak on that a little bit too? Go,

go, please.

Those moments were particularly embarrassing because I had done all that work in Chicago where I worked with LGBTQ plus youth, homeless youth. It was extra embarrassing, but you want to know the difference between when I was a student and when I was, a person in a white coat,


I had a whole different level of power. It wasn't that I was drunk with power with my like, you know, chalice and you know, I didn't have my like scepter and stuff, you know, it wasn't like that. But you do, you know, like I was in a position where my hands, I was getting my hands dirty, you know, like in the streets, getting in it.

And, and so it's really easy to kind of access the humaneness of the situation in that setting versus in like a clinical space. Where there's a lot, there's a lot that my brain is focused on. And as a healthcare provider, I have a lot of power. Any person working with someone who's training someone's body, treating someone's body, that, you are in a power position.

Think about that.


It's a huge responsibility. Huge. That's why I think that healthcare providers. are actually ethically bound to do this stuff, to do this work on themselves because it, it's, it spills into how you treat your patients. It spills, literally spills. Even if you're woke. It just spills. You can cause so much harm.

So much harm.

So revelatory here. This is so You know, as PTs, I think, and as humans, I still have this quote from a friend, and she said, we see everything that we're not. And I think as PTs, we get so I'm saying we, I'm, I'm, I'm excluding you from this. Okay. But the rest of us, why? Wow. Because you are, you've already moved past this.

You just explained this. I . So the, so the rest of us are still sitting here, you know, and people that I see, um, I honestly, I don't even have the time concerns off PT anymore, but we see PTs being so like. Kind of butthurt about the fact that they don't have the same respect. They're subconsciously butthurt.

They don't have the same respect as like an MD and they want that. And it's a power thing again, but totally missing the fact of exactly what you just said. There's, it just hit me right now. I'm like, holy shit. UC is so right. The power that you still hold. And again, not in a negative way about power, but the power that you hold just inherently in having this.

And that it becomes your duty. I love that you said that to go and do this kind of work and put in this work rather on yourself and learn these things. Like, I don't think we realize that you, you, you realize that. And you are, I love that you're doing all of this, but that was a huge moment right now.

Just for me to be like, Holy shit. Yeah. Wow. Thank you for that.

Hey, you know, you're welcome. I think, uh. And, you know, let me also say that I've, um, I seek out discomfort. So that's part of my personality. I get it from my mother. Um, and you know, I, I wanted to, when I think grad school, honestly, it was where I learned so much about myself.

And, and I remember going to Dr. Demetra John, my mentor, and telling her my passion about understanding public health and understanding the intersections. And she had her, she's PT, but had a PhD in public health. And she hooked me up with this thing called the Urban Allied Health Academy, where it was like multidisciplinary students with different groups learning about these issues that impacted health.

And then that's what catapulted me into that Schweitzer Fellowship. So. So I, I sought out those opportunities and I think most, I think particularly if we're speaking about PT schools, it's hard to kind of have that. And also I was in Chicago, right? So, I mean, talk about a hotbed of social justice, right?

Like, I mean, it's not hard to find it, but if you're, you know, in other spaces, it's a little trickier.

So it's, you have just I'm still, I'm still reeling here, uh, at the at the, the importance like, you know, so many of us shit on shit on school without shitting on school. 'cause it's like they teach the boards.

They gotta, they gotta make sure that you're safe and you don't like, I don't know. You don't. Yeah, I get it. Do that stuff. Gotta be able to pass your boards. I get it. But this is such, I love, I'm, I'm stuck on it that you use that word. Duty, like that is perfect. Like that is absolutely just, man, I have it written down.

I have it circled a million times right now because there's just something there that I know I'm going to revisit and dig deeper into, but you know, anyone that's listening to this episode, I know I got a lot of PTs that listen. I got a lot of different kinds of people listening. I should probably try and pull people at some point because I don't really know everyone that listens to this, but all the millions and millions of listeners I have.

Uh, but, uh, that as, as. Providers, we're getting called right now, which is, this is literally our duty. This is what we signed up for. There's no way around it at this point. Like, if this is what you're doing, this is what you need to be doing because this is exactly 100%, whether you realize it or not, what you signed up for.

Now we have a duty to go and figure that shit out and do better, you know, better, no more. And I was going to do better. I love that you said that. That is, you see, man, that is just, that's some good shit right there.

Oh, I love it, I


it. I'm like, I'm ready to

go do some shit right now, right now, July 18th.

Right. I want to make sure I got this right. The, you guys listening, the, the, uh, link will be in the show notes. Do you have a specific link though that you can just say right now?

Yeah. Uh, yeah. It's if you go to www. uclogic. com. Okay. Slash shop s h o p. You will see the course, um pop up immediately and you can purchase and should I like say Give a special like give a discount for your listeners.

Like would that be

dope? I mean if you want I just said no, but I'm always like if you want to you can I

want Absolutely, no, it's a discount that I give give my email subscribers. It's round table all caps round table So I'll give you a little a little extra loving

table you guys so you guys listening before you get mad at me I am taking a stance with certain things right now.

I'm all about discounts and like, you know, avoiding early adopters, but I'm also seeing minorities stepping up and then discounting stuff and putting in extra work and not charging for it. And I'm kind of like, I get it, but also. I want to make sure that this is what they want to be doing. And it's not like, oh, well I need to like, you know, I'm doing this because I need to, I'm one, I'm scared people aren't going to show up or I'm like, So that's why I said no, it was my knee jerk reaction to those of you listening.

If you're like, Maestro, you're being an asshole, that's why I said it, that's why I said it.

No, no, trust me, the, the course is adequately priced, so this is, and this is a discount that I gave to my, my very large email list of people, so it's not, it's not a big secret.

Speaking of that, cause I want you to keep going, I got my eye on the time, so we're going to wrap up soon, um, but you got an email list, you got a website, you got, You're doing a bunch of stuff.

Where can people find you? How can they learn more about you?

Absolutely. So they can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook at UC logic Y O U S E E logic, or you can check out my website. I have cataloged all of my. Bourbon tales on the website as well as my first course and I'll be putting out more products over the summer So stay tuned you can subscribe to my email list Well, we'll be kicking up our newsletter again very soon And and you can also dm me and I do have I do have private clients that I see for sex counseling So really quick, because I think that that was something you brought up earlier.

And I just want to clarify what a sex counselor is versus a, a sex therapist, because that gets interchanged a lot. So a sex therapist is a mental health provider. I am not a mental health provider. I, you know, I, I love me a good mental health provider. I have a lot of friends who are mental health provider and they are sex therapists.

So they do intensive therapy in conjunction with. sex therapy or trauma therapy or whatever work that needs to happen that manifests itself sexually for that patient. A sex counselor can be anyone, can be you, can be a therapy, can be a, uh, a clergyman, can be a doctor, nurse, PT, and they provide your patient with, you know, they get permission, they provide limited information and specific suggestions, you know, and basic education, sex education on what's going on with them.

But I'm not deep diving into their psyche because that's not my scope of practice. So these are short, these are short lived sessions. So I'm not going to be seeing someone for several months. It'll be like maybe like a couple sessions, two to four, that's it. And some, a lot of times I'm just a happy bridge to mental health, right?

Because sometimes someone will say, I need to see a sex therapist or no, I don't, I'll just see you see. And then after two sessions, I'm like, okay. You ready to see that therapist now? They're like, yes.

Yeah, this is, that's my job.


it. So speaking just a little bit more, cause actually I had that written down.

Like what does your day look like? Are you, you treat patients? You work in like a insurance place? Like what, you just do dope stuff and then you have some like bourbon at the end of the day? What's the day look like?

The day is, is hectic. So depending on like a typical Monday, like I go into the clinic and I, I might have a resident with me or a med student with me.

We see patients all day.


Um, you know, I, since I'm assistant professor, I have protected time. So Thursdays and Friday mornings Typically, it's a bunch of faculty meetings or I'm teaching or I'm working on a project or meetings meetings meetings Uh, you know, and I'm also the manager of our pelvic health program.

So I have that those duties as well So I think I have three jobs in one. Um, And then a UC logic on the side Um, so I see patients I have a pretty heavy, hefty patient load, and then a pretty hefty management load, a pretty hefty faculty load, and then this. So my day is mixed. My days are mixed.

The patient load.

What is the, what is the practice actually like? The facility actually? What is it? It's like a clinic? Yeah. Yeah. Hospital? What is it? So

Dell Med. Yeah. Dell Med is the first med school in 50 years in the continental U. S. Wow. And so, yeah, it's crazy. And so it's a multidisciplinary clinic. So we actually, the Women's Health Institute.

I see patients alongside, you know, OB GYNs, clinical social work, um, nutritionists, a registered dietician, um, PAs, nurse practitioners, you name it, psychiatry. So we all see patients in that same space. And so we have this like unified bullpen. So we come together and we say, Hey, like this patient you referred me, let's chat.

We have case conferences a couple of times a week where we talk about, talk with the, talk about the patients with the med students, fellows, residents. So it's actually really amazing experience because it's a truly multidisciplinary clinic. And, um, and I've only worked in multidisciplinary clinics, honestly, my whole career.

Maybe I think there's a time or two where I was in a straight up PT clinic, but mostly I've been in mixed spaces. Wow.

This is fascinating. And what is like the demographic there, the patient demographic?

Yeah. So Austin, Austin, Austin is a very, uh, homogeneous city. It's a densely white, but then you also have a large Latina population, Latino population.

Um, it's really losing its black population, I think, uh, pretty rapidly. Um, and so, but what I love about my job is that I get to see a lot of underinsured patients, which is really fun because they get to have the same quality care care. as someone who has really very good insurance. And so a lot of them are undocumented and it's really, it's, it's, I love it.

I'm, I love the Binghamton population. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. This is remarkable. And at least a little bit, what exactly is, two questions, I'm going to be a bad host. What exactly is UC logic and how'd you come up with that name?

Ha! So UCLogic is a sex education platform focused on, like, improving the sexual intelligence of grown folk, adults.

Because we all think that our sex education stops when we're 16 or 18. It's like, no boo. I mean, I'm still learning stuff and I'm a grown ass woman, you know? And, I mean I had this really weirdly frank conversation with my mom the other day about sex, and it was really, I was like, really, mom? I didn't know that.

Anyway. Um, and I came up with UC logic because I didn't want to, you know, I love talking about sex. I'm very comfortable talking about sex. I've done the work to, I know what my biases are when it comes to sex. And, but I also know that it can be intimidating for a lot of people. Even if you are a sexually active person for years, it still can be intimidating.

And I thought to myself, well, mostly I'm talking from my logic, UC logic. And so I just did a play on words like UC. So that's why I spell out the U. And the C versus just UC logic because I, you know, I didn't want to be an egomaniac, but it kind of is because it's still saying UC, you know how it is. I'm here for it.


be Brandy, man. I am so here for it. I am so, so here for it. I love it. I love it. This is just, I have all of it. Remarkable. If you guys aren't already, if during this episode, you didn't go and follow her, go follow her right now. Just, there's just, there's so much life in your page and you know, like that, my world is social media and I truly believe the connections you can make, you can just feel a person through the, through the screen, I, I believe, and there's just so much life there.

There's so much confidence. There's the willingness to show up. The willingness and the courage to show up 100 percent authentically, which is just so rare these days. And so just you doing that is phenomenal and it gives other people permission. And the courage to do the same. So thank you for doing that.

You guys listening, please go check her out because it's just, it's a page that you need in your life, especially the Bourbon Tellez. I'm always going to think of it now, Bourbon Tellez, what's your favorite bourbon, by the way? Are

you going to call it Bourbon Tellez? Bourbon Tellez. I was like, there's

no accent on it.

And like, I like, she went back and I looked, I was like, is there an accent on there? Like, Chantal, you'd be an idiot. What the f Oh my God. What an idiot.

I love it.

So dumb. I'm a bourbon fan myself. So we will meet at some point and have a drink or a multiple. What is your bourbon of choice? And how do you take it?

Well, you know what? It's changing. I've been drinking a lot of Will It lately. Okay. And I love me a good Manhattan. Oh, really? Okay. I love, I love a nice Manhattan. I can make it in my sleep.


Um, I don't even need to measure it. I just eyeball that stuff. Alright. It's, it's, it's a problem.

Alright, alright.

I, I'm uh, straight no chaser. Just keep it, keep it simple. Oh, I like that.

I like that. You like Blantons? Have you tried Britain? Dude,

that's like, that's my go to. But you have to be like rich to go out and have that. Because there's like a bajillion dollars everywhere. But, yes. Nah,

man. You need to be friends with the local liquor store owner.

So you can get on that list. So they can text you when that shit comes in. You

speak from experience, I see.


like the first thing I look at when I go to a bar. I'm like, where's the horse? Do I see the horse? All right, good. I can stay here. Cool. Yes. It's smooth. It's good. Ah, this is, this is phenomenal.

You see, I'm going to wrap us up, but before I do that, the question I ask everyone at the end, do you have anything and you've given us so, so much, but do you have anything you want to share? Say, leave us. haven't already?

Um, I woul

Believe in, believe in your gut, believe in yourself, believe in your gut. I always believe in my gut and that's what, that's where, that's what gets me where I need to go.

Simple, simple, straightforward. I appreciate it. You see, this has been phenomenal. Like I very much openly selfishly started a podcast so I could talk to cool people.

Uh, and you, you delivered and got my learn on today and This has been absolutely, absolutely remarkable. I know with full certainty with your, uh, your blessing, I'll be bringing you back on. So thank you for your time and your expertise and your knowledge and just your commitment to being excellent. So we're all better for it.

So thank you very, very much. Truly appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been so fun.

This is, this is just so damn good. You guys listening. Thank you. I know you could've been doing anything. Most things, not everything cause Rona, but you could've been doing a lot of things and you chose to listen to us.

And for that, we are both extremely, extremely grateful. I'm not going to ask for any subscriptions or anything like that, but I do have two other asks. One, sign up for that course, especially if you are a PT. It is our duty. There's no getting around it guys. We can, and we must, and we will. Do better. Use the link in the show notes, sign up.

Second ask, if you found some value in this episode, if you smiled a little bit, share it with somebody who you think it could help. Alright? That's all that I got for you. Officially, gonna wrap it up. Until next time folks, Dr. UC and Maestro, out.

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