Full Transcript: MOTM #574: Creating Connection with Laura Jean

[Transcript starts at 2:13]

Maestro: Hello friends, Maestro here bringing you another episode of my favorite podcast, and today we are doing it with a guest. I've brought her on before. Not only have I brought her on before, but I talk about her in probably one out of every three episodes. She's had a profound impact on the way that I think, and I'm just always here for the confirmation bias.

If you are watching this on YouTube, thank you. You can see that we are actually twins. A little bit. We're, we're gonna be, uh, what are those called? We are fraternal twins. We're not identical twins. We are fraternal twins. I brought her back on, actually did a recent episode on her podcast and I promoted the shit out of that.

We'll link that in the show notes. Thank you, Courtney. But I brought her on because I wanted her on my podcast so you could hear just the profound things, I'm gonna use that word, the profound things that she has to say, uh, and the dry humor that comes along with it. Uh, I'll read her little bio cuz there is some dry humor in it.

I'll read the first line here. Laura Jean, who is our guest today is a dietician by trade, a weirdo at heart, and 80 year old nana by nature. She's passionate about supporting health professionals to bring more of themselves and their values into their business. Y'all know anytime I say values, the next line coming outta my mouth is Laura Jean.

Laura practices and runs her own business with a non-diet, trauma informed, social justice, human-centered approach front of mind. She's based in Australia. You're gonna get another accent this week, folks. And when she's not challenging the status quo over at her website, www.dieticianvalues.com, you can find her kicking back, enjoying her-

I love this knowable- daily ice coffee or pottering in her permaculture garden. Pottering. We're gonna get into what the heck that means. Uh, cause I don't know, but I left it in there so I could go over that. 

Laura Jean: Is that not a big us word? Probably more British. 

That's why 

Maestro: I said it. Cause we don't say it.

Cause we don't say it. Without further ado, welcome back to the show, one of my favorite guests of all time, my twin, Laura Jean. Welcome homie. 

Laura Jean: Thanks for having me. There's a little bit of pressure there. Profound, but luckily I, uh,

Maestro: It's profound. I mean, I guess it's all subjective, but in my mind, and I will leave up to the, to the listeners and the viewers, I do find the things profound and, uh, one of the reasons I bring Laura Jean on, and Laura Jean and I have conversations outside of this as well, is because Laura Jean honestly makes me feel less alone.

I think that any, all of you listening to this can really resonate with that. Where you have someone, you, you've found people in your ecosystem who just get it, who speak the language, who can give you words for things that you can't find, and you're just like, yes. So I brought her back on, makes me feel less alone.

And I truly do believe the things that she says, I do find them to be profound. So we're gonna have, uh, however long this episode is, 45 minutes an hour of profound chatting with the, uh, pottering pro from her permaculture garden, laura Jean. What time is it there Laura Jean? 

Laura Jean: Uh, it's approximately 5:35 AM. 

It's a bit early. 

Maestro: She is in the future, folks. Like, uh, Laura Jean, I wanna start this off by taking us back before we hopped onto this episode, you said that, uh, most recently, you were at a, uh, an event and you kind of walked away from that event with like a Oh wow, I've left the bubble and I've seen what's outside of the bubble.

Can you just, can you set the stage with that? 

Laura Jean: For sure. Yeah. I think, um, and perhaps people listening along or watching along who are doing things a little bit differently or maybe on that kind of edge. Um, and actually I was talking to a colleague and a friend recently about, so in my bio is the word permaculture, which is a kind of like a set of principles.

Like I'm not a religiously following. Um, I'm not a religious person either, but I'm not religiously following permaculture, um, like to the T. But one of the things they talk about is like edges, so maximize edges. And so like on the edge of a garden, it's often a piece where people like are trying to like, make it clean and neat and, and the edges are wild.

Um, and so for anyone who, um, you know, is on the edge maybe of their profession or maybe just how they show up in their life or their business, whatever it might be. When you step over the, when you are in your little, when you go back away from the edge and you're in little bubble and it's beautiful in the garden and the trees are around and the birds are there, but then when you step out of the edge and it's, it's wilder than you thought, um, or maybe it's, maybe it's wild in the garden and on the other side of the edge, it's like, you know, um, you have those kind of really, um, militant homeowner ship associates.

 Like, it's like that on the other side and you're like, whooo, back over to my garden. So it was kind of that kind of feeling of like, and, and it was a great time. I like connected with people and like that part always fills me up. But I just realized that the conversation that probably I'm having, um, or the conversation I want to have more importantly, um, is just different than what's, uh, beyond the edge of my little garden.

Maestro: Yes. This is why I bring her on. I love this. This is, this is exactly why I brought her on. Uh, one of the words that pops into my mind and another past guest I've had is, is Alyson um, Evans and her company's named Fringe for exactly what, what Laura Jean is saying. And I think that, I think a good number of you listening to this, maybe you, if you don't, even if you don't have the words for it yet, you feel it and you're like, I want something different.

I wanted to do something different, I feel a bit different. And maybe you found your people, um, you know, in kind of the social media space. But I do think that right now, and just social media can be amazing. Social media can be just a, a Deb. What I'm seeing is, and feeling is, it's tough on the fringe. It's, it can, it feels tough on the outside of traditional approaches to things.

And it can feel like a constant like barrage, a constant, a constant beat down things that are feeling a little bit, a little bit rough with that. Can you walk me through, Laura Jean, when you left the, uh, the proverbial garden and saw that and then came back, what, what, what feels did you have? Where, where are we at?

Was it just like, do you fall into that pit of despair? I think probably not, but 

Laura Jean: Wasn't a pit. But I did. I did. Um, I did dip my toe in and had a little cry. Felt all the feels, you know, like got that. And then, um, it worked out well time and wise. I was catching up with some few, few humans in person, um, in the space that were, were definitely cup filled.

Like, you know, that confirmation bias perhaps, or just, um, people who were really thinking about things the same. So that was really helpful. Um, and, I don't know. I thi I'm, I'm a very in introspective person, so when, then, when I, when I step away from spaces like that, but I also am affected by other people's energies and not in a, like, you know, know, it, it impacts me when I'm around other people, when I move into other spaces, you know, and come back into myself and ground back in myself and my own values and what I'm here to do. It's kind of like, yeah, there's a part of me that was like, for like a hot, hot minute was kind of like, I nearly messaged you actually. DM'd you.

I was like, give some, give me, gimme something. Um, like, am I, am I on the right track? Am I doing the, like, you know, like that kind of thing. Um, and then I grounded back in my own values and gave myself my own advice of like, well, what's the alternative? Um, showing up outside of my values? Um, watering that down in a way that is palatable for other people, but is only part of me?

Um, I was like, yeah, probably not, because then it'll get to a point where the part of me that I've been denying or cutting off or holding back, I'm just gonna like, I'm just gonna bubble out at somebody, someone's gonna get that. Um, but also or I'm holding it and like I've got the resentment because I'm not turning my values to myself.

So I worked through it, you know, and, and, um, yeah, just jumped back in my bubble, figuratively and literally back inside my garden, literally. Um, and, you know, back outside, but then also figuratively back in connecting to people and just continuing the conversation. Um, and the humans that, um, hang out with me were kind enough, not cuz I asked them, but just kind enough to respond in ways that really gave me that, um, yeah, that confirmation bias.

But also just reminded me that there are people that wanna hear what I have to, and not even in that. Um, I talk about, you know, my, um, interpretation of being of like a, of a, of a culture, of a world that's kind of fair and just is a space where people can be seen, heard and known. Um, and people just offered me that in my space, but offered me that opportunity to be seen, heard, and known again.

Um, which I probably didn't have in that space. And so that was, yeah, that was enough to just ground me back. Doesn't take me much to get, ground me back in. But yeah, I was like, you know, had a, had a moment for sure. 

Maestro: Definitely, definitely. There's, there's two things there, like I'm gonna go with the second one that you said about a fair and just world.

Can you just elaborate on that? Cuz in my mind, the first thing I say is I'm like, life is not fair. How How do I reconcile that? Or what is, what are your thoughts in terms of let's go with fair and just world. What is that? What does that mean? 

Laura Jean: Well, firstly, and I mean, people who have heard me talk before will know that I often say values are actionable and aspirational.

So it's definitely an aspiration to have a fair and just world. Like it's probably not gonna happen, right? Um, but I can cultivate it, I can bring fairness, like that concept. And, and I suppose when it comes to value stuff, um, we have those words, you know, those big words of like, these are my values. And the more we act into them and more the show up in them, we get, we get more us words that wrap around it so that were kinda like the words that fell out of those values, exercises, fair and justice, those kind of noun based values.

But the more I've acted into them and the more I've teased that out and thought, what does that mean to me? Um, like, you know, if like for some people justice might be fair and just punishment, right? Um, for me it often meant like a feeling of, of equality, equity, something along those lines. But as I've teased it out, what I really yeah, want for people for myself, absolutely. Um, bad maths, a thousand percent. Um, and for everyone else is, is the opportunity to be seen, heard, and known by others, but also by themselves. And that's where values I find really helpful, um, as an opportunity, yes, for how we show up for other people, but also how we see ourselves and how, how we say, yes, please see me, this is me.

I want to be seen. I want to be heard. Like it's basic human need. And most of us don't really get it, um, met. Um, but we can start by, I suppose, cultivating spaces where there's an opportunity and, um, yeah, that's, that's my dream. 

Maestro: I'm, I, you know, what's the thing I wanna say? Just like right off the shoot from the hip is I'm like, that seems very simple.

Like, yes, because the thing that you're to be seen, heard, and understood, that was the third one. 

Laura Jean: Mm. Well, it's probably more known. I don't think we need to be understood.

Maestro: Known. Seen, heard, 

Laura Jean: for me anyway, like, because this is obviously all through my own lens. 

Maestro: Absolutely. 

Laura Jean: Understood. Only because I've, I've spent time, you know, my, my very close personal relationships trying to be understood or as I mentioned in my bio as a little weirdo, um, people, people probably won't understand.

That's okay. 

Maestro: Yeah. 

Laura Jean: But if they just know that's, that's okay, that's Laura, that's her.

Maestro: That. I'm like, it's okay. That's okay. Seen, heard, and known. The, the reason that I'm sticking with this is that like, if I shoot from the hip, I'm like, so simple. Like, it's not like to me, you're not asking for these fucking radical, like, just like this has to bend over backwards to do this.

What do you see, what have you experienced as the biggest barriers to that? 

Laura Jean: Um, it's like the fear. Well, I would say like what we would say is the negative, but I don't think it's the negative. It's the, it's the desire to belong. The desire to belong is the barrier, not because doing that allows us, because we are so scared that maybe somebody will say we don't. 

Maestro: Because 

Ah man.

So good. Writing it down. 

Laura Jean: And James Olivia would say, uh, we all like, belonging is. Like, you know, that's just that it just is. Um, and so, you know, we spend a lot of our life trying to fit in and we mistake that for belonging. Um, I think it's one of the reason people get their back up a little bit about the whole privilege conversation because privilege is part of the thing that allows us to fit in, but we still don't feel like we belong.

So people will often, I think one, like there's lots of reasons people get their back up about the privilege conversation, but I think one of the people is that felt sense in themselves is like, but privilege. But I don't feel like I belong either. But it's different cuz fitting in cuz our culture doesn't want us to be, feel like we belong.

The systems and culture around us want us to fit in and that's the poor substitute that we have for belonging at our cultural bigger picture level is, um, you know, we won't give you belong, we won't let you feel like you belong. But, but we'll allow you to do all these things to fit to, um, substitute that for the feeling of fitting in.

And anyone who has ever fitted in at the sense of, um, at the expense of their self, um, we'll know that doesn't feel so great. 

Maestro: That. I love that you used that word expense, cuz as you're, as you're saying this, I am, I am working to process as you're saying it, and I'm thinking about the words that are popping up.

And to me, when they're with, with belonging, one of the words that pops up is power. And not in a negative way. People have feelings about things, about everything, but of course if we're looking at over culture and things like that, we don't want people to feel like they belong. There is a power, there's a, um, a sense of community and pride and, and togetherness that comes with that.

That's just different. I love that you separate that from fitting in. That's so, so. That's. Yes. I love, I love this. What would you say, Laura Jean, are, I'm kind, the word that comes to mind is indicators, but that's not the word I really want. But identifiers, indicators of signs, feelings, of belonging? Cuz it's different than fitting in. If we were give people words.

Laura Jean: Mm. I suppose it's that feeling of home. Um, I shared a thing, I think it was this week around that, around, you know, often our culture, and we talked about it when, when we were chatting. Like, you know, that that hold those words like the best version of you, the biggest thing, you know, there's this idea, actually I dropped a podcast episode this week when we're recording around, you don't have to be the best version of yourself, right?

You don't have to give a hundred percent. Which I know is antithetical for a lot of people. Um, but what I, I suppose my alternative I offered up is, is to, is to be the version of yourself that feels like home. The version of yourself that really feels like you. Sometimes that can feel really like, it's almost like saying just love yourself, like the version of yourself that feels like you, but we know what that feeling of home and not necessarily family of origin home if that didn't feel so great or like physical home.

But we know that feeling of, it's like that exhale, you know, we talk. I know you talk about the nervous system a lot and it's that feeling like, you know, that feeling that just. Release of that. Yes. Or just when you're around people, you know, we've all had a taste of that. Um, when we get around people, I hope that everyone has, actually, I shouldn't generalize, but I really hope that everyone has had a taste of that.

When you get around somebody who just kind of knows you or just you feel really seen. And to me that's what that feeling is, is when somebody really sees me or hears me or knows me and doesn't have to understand me, doesn't even have to agree with me, um, but allows me to exist and what I have, um, to bring it if I, but I don't even have to bring it, but just allows for that.

And, you know, if we think about it on the micro level in a conversation, like with you, I get to be seen, heard, and known, but at a macro level, people with identities that are, you know, we, we are culturally they're- our culture, our systems are saying, we don't wanna see you. And, and it starts just even with that first basic step.

So if we don't wanna see you, then we're not gonna allow you to be known or heard. So it, it rolls out at that macro level. And I think it's really linked in to concepts of that fairness and justice. So that's where they're the kind of thing, because I feel like that's much more actionable as well for me.

Um, and I'm really big on values being actionable and wrapping words around your values. So while fairness and justice are the concepts that underline value, like how do you act into that? Like it's just so big and it's thing, but yes. But like you said, seen, heard, and known, it feels really simple.

And it is. And yet everything about how we've been, well not everything, again, I shouldn't generalize because a lot of people perhaps were, you know, raised or, or, or cre um, cultivated, you know, those spaces- had those spaces cultivated for themselves where they were able to do that. But even when they have, like, I feel like, you know, you shared heaps of your story about your childhood and, and your relationship with your mom and that kind of space about how, it sounds like that you were given a bit of a space to be seen her to own or a big space.

But even then you can see that not everyone has. So even when we've had it for ourselves, we can see that that's just not what most people get. And it's definitely not what the wider systems offer up, you know? 

Maestro: Laura Jean, what does that look like in terms of cultivating, what does that look like? I'm not a parent, don't tell Rupert, but what does that look like?

I watch you, uh, and I watch Stephanie Hine, who's also come on the podcast, but I think it was 17,000 years ago as well. Laura Jean came on for episode 343. That was December, 2021. I literally, if someone asked me when she was on, I would've been like a few months ago. That's a lie. 

Laura Jean: Stephanie Hine would've come on like in the November or December, 2020.

And the reason I know that is cuz I listened to that episode while I was packing up my house and I was like, that's a human I like to listen to.

Maestro: There we go. I'm like, that and the, I think she came on twice. I think she came on um, maybe before when it was just about her like kind of traveling stuff.

Laura Jean: Yeah. That one was about the homeschooling, kind of keto convo. 

Maestro: What does that look like for you and parenting in terms of cultivating that kind of space. 

Laura Jean: Oh, most of the time it means just getting out of the way. Um, not putting my, inserting myself into my kids or into my, into their actions or behaviors.

Yeah. Like, just try, try and let them be their own little selves, really. Um, and when, you know, when they can't be, when I'm, you know, I try and be really clear about why a thing is, we were, we were actually walk, um, we were going to school with my youngest, yeah uh, middle kiddo yesterday, and she was walking backwards up the hill in the middle of the road.

And I said, mm, darling, that's a safety issue. Um, like, try and, like, you know, I don't wanna say you can't do that. I know walking backwards up a hill is really good for your knees. So, for my physios out there and PTs. Um, so I was like, so like, rather than be, you can't do, you know, like, so I suppose I'm really, I'm, I'm a word, word lover and, and really conscious with language. So I suppose that's one way I try and allow it to come through, um, to really allow it to be. There's nothing wrong with walking backwards up a hill. There's nothing wrong with walking funny. Being yourself. Being a little weirdo. Um, you just can't do it on the middle of the road on the hill when someone crests over.

Like that's a safety issue. So, you know. Yes. So I just, and that's all I gave her. Like, that's a safety issue, darling. And so she, I was like, if there was a path. Um, we live in a tiny village, there's rarely path. Um, but so she just took herself over onto the grass on the edge of the road and continued walking up backwards, like, okay, no worries.

I said, that's probably a personal safety issue in that you can't see ditches and things, but that's, that's, that's a you, that's your body, your choice. So. 

Maestro: Kids are made of nerf, like she'll be fine. 

Laura Jean: She won't get hit by the Wooly's delivery truck, cruising around the village early in the morning. 

Maestro: There you go.

Laura Jean: I've, my job is done. My job here is done. 

Maestro: Laura, I have, I have two questions because especially coming off of you just saying Wooly's whatever, delivery truck?

Laura Jean: Supermarket, local, local food, supermarket, delivery, you know, shop online.

Maestro: Delivering to the houses. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. 

Maestro: Okay. Wow. That's how it gets delivered there. 

Laura Jean: Oh, you don't do that?

Maestro: I mean, it's gonna be somebody. It's not like a, the grocery store is coming. It's somebody that works. 

Laura Jean: Oh yeah, yeah. A courier. But they just have their special truck, like, yeah. 

Maestro: Oh, do they? Oh no, this is like somebody's personal vehicle that they're likely using as it's part of some Amazon thing. Like, 

Laura Jean: Oh, right.

No, no, no. 

Maestro: They won't have like Vons on the side. We don't have that. No, no. So that in mind, cuz we have what I consider to be kind of a small town. I think the word which used was village. How are, and we'll start with the kids cuz we were just talking about that. Are your kids received, are they seen, heard and known by their peers?

Laura Jean: Mm. It's a tough one. A little bit. Um, but definitely, yeah, that's a lot of holding work around kind of talking about it with them around that. Yeah. That, that they have to make, like, you know, at an age appropriate conversation level of making that choice of, of fitting in versus feeling like you belong within yourself.

Um, and we have that, um, because yeah. Um, no, not always. No, no. That's the short answer. Um, kids are going to like, like our culture in our soci, this is the thing is that our culture in our society is, is not gonna let you wanna feel like you fit in anyway. You can sacrifice as many parts of yourself as you want.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and not, not all of it actually. I, I've have, I do do reclaim that I was always a bit weird. Um, but I, but I tried that like, and in my teenage years, you know, when that's a thing and I look back on who I was then it's like parts of that is like my least favorite iteration of me.

Um, there's periods and, and, and without a doubt, the times where I look back and like, I have one of those personalities where I, you know, replay, like can cringe at a memory from, you know, 20 years ago. Um, I cringe, you know, preemptively when I'm watching a movie, when somebody's gonna make like a real big social faux pas and I'm just like, oh, it's, 

Maestro: That's a word, I call it secondary awkwardness.

And I like can't. I'm like, I can't watch this. I have to leave. 

Laura Jean: So that feels really viscerally, physically uncomfortable for me. Um, but when I look back on those kind of times where I, um, acted in ways where I'm like, Hmm, yeah, a bit cringey for myself. It's, it's without doubt it's times when I, when I was trying to fit in or trying to be, who I thought other people might like more or those kind of things.

So, or you know, actually my nice trauma programming. Uh, but, um, yeah, so really. We can do it, I suppose. I want my kids to know that they can and they can make that choice. Um, and it's, there is, there is a trade off to that. Um, they just got their hair cut like super short actually a little bit like, um, a little bit like Tina, Tina from, Dena don't, I've never said Tina's surname out loud, so I don't wanna butcher it. Um, from the Mafia. 

Maestro: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, who? Tina Dominguez. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. Dominguez. That's it. Yeah. I was gonna go with that and I was like, mm. I just, yeah, so like, you know, like that with the side for anyone who has never seen Tina, it's like a side, like shaved down and like, you know, the little sides swipe.

They're, my kids are six and nine to give a bit of context, you know. Um, and, but what's really interesting, I don't, I think they've had a pretty good reception of it. But yeah, there was a moment where my oldest was like, what are people gonna say? I said, well, what's up to you? People will say something.

You've been wanting to have this haircut for a while. It's up to you whether you want, which thing's more important to you. And you know, just leaving the decision with her. But, but, but obviously highlighting it because she's only nine so she doesn't have fully developed prefrontal cortex. So this is what will happen.

Um, but yeah, I suppose I, you know, you talk about this a lot, is I, my job or my work is in taking care of myself, what, what happens. So, or, or parenting and showing up for her whichever choice, um, that, that she chooses to make. So she had a chosen not to and then regretted it because her little sister did it, then I would've, you know, held space for that.

Maestro: The reason I ask this one, cause I'm nosy, but, uh, the main reason I ask this is one of the things that you brought up, and I love that word cultivate and talking about cultivating communities of care. And I just wanna present people with the full picture cuz it's so easy to present this very, you know, this is amazing and you can change and be different and be yourself.

And then they're like, but also here's the reality. What does this actually look like? And I do believe that there- one parents are superheroes. I mean, I, that's beyond my capacity, but I'm interested in, in seeing what this actually looks like in practice and cultivating this kind of ecosystem and this kind of environment and what that looks like.

It's one thing with us, which is my main next question, but then with kids and then what does it look like for them? And just, I don't know. Cause that's not, that's not where I'm at. One of the things you said there that was really profound was that like, society is never gonna want you to, to feel like you fit in.

And that was, that's a profound statement to me. Um, and also, yes, you're in a small, a village, which I'm gonna assume is not very big. Compared to like, let's say where I live. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. Probably about, I think that the last census, which is like our counting of all the people was about 400 people in the village itself.

But there's like properties around, I'm 20 minutes from the capital of Australia, but even that's not very peopley. 

Maestro: Do you know everyone Laura Jean? 

Laura Jean: I know a lot of people, yes. I do. But not everyone 

Maestro: We talked, uh, in person when you were here. So Laura Jean came for BossUp last October. The weather was acting a fool.

Uh, she made a long, the jaunt over here and we got to speak in person about this. What is that like in person? You showing up as you, more you, leading with values, values are verbs, and you know, showing up as you in this, this space, what has that been like, that space? 

Laura Jean: I dunno how it's been for anyone else as far as in the village, but it's been like, I've, I've enjoyed it.

Um, I titrated a little bit as far as like, you know, I don't give my whole self and everything to ev like not everyone can handle this, uh, you know, don't wanna scare everyone in the village. It is a village of only 400 people, so, you know, um, but yeah, I, I, I suppose I've been consciously cultivating community for a little bit of alliteration.

Um, so finding those spaces where the people hang out that have a similar value set. And so I started a community produce share. So, um, with the garden stuff. Um, one from a real, um, personal desire to get my hands on fruit and vegetables that people aren't using. Uh, as I establish my garden here. Cause it takes, you know, anyone out there around garden, it takes a couple of years to actually get your garden.

I know. We see all those Instagramable pics ,sorry, garden tangent of like, I just built this bed this year. Look at the produce. Like from my experience having done this before in another home, um, it took me four or five years to get to kind of um, like a good kind of peak production kind of space.

Well, I don't know if that's peak, cuz then we left after a little bit of that. But anyway, I know that this, you know, again, this is kind of like similar to that feeling of the bubble feeling where I'm like, I'm in a new garden, I'm like, oh, oh, oh, it's, it's me. I'm a terrible gardener. I should just give up.

But actually really it just takes time for soil and microbes and we won't go down the regenerative soil path. 

Maestro: Okay. I'm like, we should, maybe 

Laura Jean: We won't go too far right yet. I'm I'll, I'll come back. We can go back there, but I'll, I'll bring my tangent back. Um, anyway, so I was like, we are gonna be here. You know, we, we, I don't have a crystal ball, but our plan is to be in this village for a while.

And I want to cultivate community because really community and, and a resilient community, I think, and that ecosystem of care is so important. And we can't create ecosystems of care if we don't relate in a way where we know and allow ourselves to be known. Um, but also where we don't have those smaller, like microcosm kind of, of, of people we are connected to.

So anyway, I started this, um, produce share, community, produce share. So I just popped it up on Facebook. People do still use Facebook. We have like a community group.

Maestro: It's still a thing. Absolutely. 

Laura Jean: And was just like, Hey, wanna meet the oval on Sunday and swap garden stuff? And people did. So, um, it's been great.

We've been doing it for about a bit over a year. Um, and I really wanted it to be community. Like I do the weekly post, but I really want it to be something that's driven by other people that's not about, it's not my produce share. And, um, yeah, so I've met some people through that who are really, um, great, like people on different levels of conversation.

But there's one particular young couple here, um, who, yeah, we can really, that go into that deep boom. You know, you meet those people where it's like, yeah, within five seconds you're talking about whatever the deepest thing is on your mind at the moment. And I had that. And so, you know, it's been about finding my people, um, my, my specific people and also it's like different, different parts of my value.

What's really interesting is my, probably my best kind of like, same mom, like same sort of stage of life friend as me is actually a physio. Um, in the town. In the town. There's like heap of physios here. I'm like surrounded by physios, online physios. There's like five, at least five. It's a village of 400 people.

There's at least five physios that live in this physi village. So, um, which is strange. 

Maestro: I'm like, oh, okay. Wow. Okay. 

Laura Jean: But anyway, so, you know, so you kind of get to know your people. Um, so, you know, we have that similar health professional values and health and like way of looking at things. And so that's really cool.

So I've sort of got, yeah, been cultivating those spaces and recognizing, and this is something that, you know, over, over time that, that not one single person or one single group is going to maybe see, know, and hear all of me. And they don't have to. They don't have to be, not a hundred percent has to be seen, known and heard at every one time, but there's different spaces and cultivating spaces where I can get those needs met, um, and have that little, um, little, little belonging hit, um, 

Maestro: That part. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. That there's different people

Maestro: You kinda got ahead of the question that I wanted to ask, um, which is,

Laura Jean: I read your mind. 

Maestro: You really did though. I'm like, yes. And I'm gonna probably just ask you to kind of elaborate on that. One, what Laura you just said is that you don't have to get all things from a single place.

Um, that, that, all three of those things. One of the things I wanna back up and maybe I'll ask for action items for people, um, is you said that you kind of titrate yourself, if you will, which makes sense, right? As we're choosing to relate to people, it's, you don't have to like, just like, here I am, here's more me a million.

Right? Right Here. I think that for some people there's such a, because of how they were raised, how they've grown up, how things have always been, maybe it feels all or nothing or there's difficulty in that titration process. Can you speak to that and if there's any like, advice you have 

with that? 

Laura Jean: Yeah, I suppose I would share the, the things I notice when I don't titrate myself, uh, when I'm either a little bit, a little bit disregulated, a little bit like, you know, maybe, um, got some, you know, any different kind of that like, you know, I'm not grounded.

I'm not grounded in my nervous system. I'm not necessarily grounded in my values. So there's that piece. But also when I've gone, not too long, but more of a period of not being seen, heard, and known. So like the long, like the, it's almost like, and it's probably that cultural scarcity idea of shit, here's an opportunity to be seen, heard, and known.

I best get that out. Um, so look, I will be the first to know I'm that I definitely, you know, have that so that, that post, um, contact awkwardness of like, I shared too much. Um, did I scare that person? Perhaps a little. Uh, but yeah, so there is that piece like, yeah, it's not a, it's not a thing, but I, I get that feeling like that.

But the other things that I notice is when I do tend to be, it's when I'm less grounded in my values and less grounded in myself. And that's from whether it be because I haven't been having conversations where I am, like feeling like, you know, you talk about, you know, posting every day so you know your voice.

I think just even connecting regularly to people who, where you can share who you are is really part of gr It really helps me to ground back in who I am because I'm sharing who I am rather than just up in my head all the time. It's prob, it's that physical, you know, getting out of your head and into your body or into your, into that physical kind of representation of who you are.

But also that whole grounding on a, on a nervous system kind of, uh, basis as well. Um, feeling safe and secure so that when you do show up, you're showing up. Because we can't access all of those higher needs of belonging and things like that. Or we can't kinda tap into that if we don't feel safe, right? If, if we feel unsafe.

Then safety is what we're gonna prioritize. So, um, and if, you know, one of your kind of things is if one of mines is, is not being seen, not being known, um, then when I'm in those spaces and I'm feeling a little bit ungrounded, then I will be like, oh, go, go take this opportunity. Or I can do the other one where I will go like, like, just jump into my little shell.

 And, and not, not, and be feel like, you know, that's not safe to be known, um, or seen, which sometimes it isn't. And particularly depending on what identities, um, that you, um, show up with. That, that's, that's more or less safe. So it's not always, it's actually not always safe inside us, like, doesn't, we can't access our own sense of safety, but it actually isn't always actually safe.

So I don't wanna pretend that we can you know, back to that whole idea, like we talked about the kids, but even for ourselves, it's not always possible to be seen, heard, and known. It's not safe. 

Maestro: Totally, totally. How do you reconcile, how do, so many of the questions that I'm thinking of are me seeing you as someone that is ahead and has put in work and like really sat with things and is like, not like we're in some like, um, race, but you have experienced certain things. And this is me asking questions that, Hey, you've gone through this, you've experienced it. What was your experience? And obviously we can, everyone's free to then take what serves them, leave the rest.

But what has been your experience? What have you learned from that? Um, you know, what did you draw from that? What did that look like, both the quote unquote good and the bad of that? Mm. Um, because I, I do believe that people listening to this, people in our, in our ecosystems, whether they're lurkers or whatever, they're on that journey.

They're on that, that path. And part of that is kind of taking those, taking those steps and taking those leaps. And I'm gonna try and be seen and I'm just like, Laura Jean tell me everything that you can about that experience. And part of that, the reason I ask you is, is one, to hear from a different voice because part of me is, I'm like, that's largely been how I've always lived my life.

And talking to, you know, fellow Australian, Erica Webb, um, I'm very aware of that when I speak to her and that there's like, not everyone thinks like this or has that experience. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Forgot about that. So it's, it's great and very helpful, beneficial, in my opinion to talk, to speak to someone like you who has actively gone through that and now has language and words, uh, words around that.

So if we circle back to, uh, for folks that are thinking, this more you more me, I'm gonna try and, you know, there's the yes, we can go too far, uh, and be like, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm in a space where I finally feel safe and I say all the things. But if, let's say as case scenario, we're in a space where safety is there, what would you say those initial steps of being more of them of looking to be seen, heard, and known. What does that look like? 

Laura Jean: I think it starts with your values. I'll bring it back there. Um, you know, in business everyone's probably familiar with that whole day of like, know your why. And I think your values offer that up. And so as a human wanting to be known, like, like who, who are you and, and why and what, and what does that, like, what part of you or what part of your needs does that actually meet?

So for me it's around connection. Cause I can't connect, um, without that. Um, it's gonna be that fitting in kind of connection. So I think knowing that, because then in those moments you get that opportunity to respond around is, you know, what's my value? Why am I doing this? This feels a bit uncomfortable.

But, but this is why. Because, maybe it's an age thing, but you do get to a certain point where you're just like, 

Maestro: It's true. 

Laura Jean: The values. The values piece where you just realize that, you know, and you talk about it, time's gonna go anyway. Like, I'm gonna be living my life anyway, right?

Time is going to go each day. That interaction that I'm now in right now, it's gonna pass. And my choice is, do I take the opportunity to be seen, heard, and known, to show up, or do I not? And, and the thing that allows me to often say yes to that more often than not, is knowing my values and knowing why that's important to me.

Because what I want is I wanna feel connected. I wanna be in those ecosystems of care, and I wanna be seen, heard, and know, but I also want other people to. And again, I'll, I'll just parrot you back to yourself. Give people the gift to going first. Like part of that is that, and I think as helping health and supportive people, that most of the people are probably listening, that's probably why we mostly got into our, our jobs. We wanted to hold space for other people to, to get help or to get support. And one of the ways we can really do that is, is showing up in our full humanity as much as we can, because then that holds the space for other people. Um, if we are not doing that, it's, it's not gonna happen.

We can, we can, we can be empathetic, we can be holding the space, we can be, you know, really good active listeners using all the counseling skills and all of those pieces, but if we are not, and we don't, bringing ourselves doesn't mean the faux online, you know, authenticity, crying JAG videos we see, you know. 

It's like, it's, it's that rela, you know, James, like, it's that relating piece. And, and as health professionals and as humans, we've been, um, trained and socialized to not bring the relating to, to leave parts of ourselves there. Even when it comes to values, you know, we should have our professional values and our personal values, and I say bullshit.

Um, and so it's all those pieces, like it comes back to that piece. So there's not like a necessarily like, you know, take a deep breath, put on your power pose, lean. It's like, it's the deep shit. The deep work. Like that is what gets you to that point that when you're in that conversation, you're ready. Because part of it is with the two bits, knowing yourself and being able to take care of yourself when that, what, whichever way that whatever happens.

Maestro: Ah, love it. That's full circle with the conversation there of starting off with being able to be seen, heard, and known by yourself. 

Laura Jean: Yes. And that's it. Even if people don't have those spaces where it is, does feel safe or where it's like, it's so much more work for their nervous system to do it with other people, you can do it with yourself. Do you even know yourself? Do you see yourself? Do you let yourself be heard? And as Erica would say, like with kindness, with compassion, um, or, you know, are you only hearing yourself through the lens of somebody else's values? Maybe family of origin, values or cultural values that say you've gotta do this to fit in.

You've gotta do this. So do you see yourself, but also do you offer yourself that opportunity to be turning your values towards yourself? 

Maestro: Laura Jean, what's your story with that? Was there, you know, we just had Erica on the, on the podcast and, and so we were talking about her story with this and seeing herself, knowing herself, accepting herself, um, hearing herself.

What has been your journey with that? 

Laura Jean: I've always known myself and always seen myself. I've always been like that and just sometimes been like, nobody's gonna be able to handle it, or I've gotten the message that, that is not welcome. You know? Definitely. Um, and so I learnt how to, I suppose, play the role that people wanted me to in different situations.

Not every situation, you know. I've got, I've still got good mates from high school where I showed up as myself. So I've always been somebody who's been able to, or I suppose, you know, for want of a better word, play the game there if I needed to, around what, um, how I showed up, but then also sometimes felt like I just couldn't, for my own sense of like fear.

Like fear, definitely fear. But I have always known myself and I've always seen myself and always been grounded in myself. So I suppose I've always had that at least. Um, I've not had that kind of experience of being unkind to myself. Um, definitely had times where I've sort of thought definitely my, my, probably my biggest thing is, um, outside of like, yeah, I don't have that critical self voice, but I have that because I really want to belong.

Like I really want to be seen. Like it's all comes back to that for me. And so yes, I do have those, I've had that kind of experience of, of fear of what if I don't, but then when you're grounded in your values or when as I've gone through that process, it's like, well, as a minimum, I, I, I know me. Um, and you know, I can start with that.

Maestro: I love this part of it and what you just said because at the end of the day, I'm like, this to me is being human. Like I, I, I believe that certain, that, I believe that at times folks think, folks think that being human is like these things don't exist or this like dissonance isn't there or like this difficulty isn't there and it's just like, I feel like I belong and it's easy like that, that this like, you know, rainbows and butterfly world is, I don't wanna say like the, the thing you're striving towards, but this of going back and forth and having the discussions with yourself and having the feelings and having the, the range of emotions is to me being human.

It's not that I'm always confident and always know and I'm always feel I belong and I always, and it's always anything. Like what you shared. Like to me, yes, I love it. This is why you're my twin. You started off very rooted, but even the most rooted still have periods of, but what about, but what if? Uh, but then we, I think that we have the benefit of that self-trust, that self knowing that we can, can default, can default back to. 

Laura Jean: Mm-hmm. Definitely. I think one of the pieces, I think, I mean, you, we've got the positive vibes crew to blame for a few things, but old, um, Maslow with his culturally appropriated hierarchy of needs at the tops that self-actualization, which I think a lot of words and a lot of concepts in our culture get th get filtered through the values of the systems we're part of.

And in our systems, in our values, one of the biggest values of our culture is perfectionism. And so to reach self-actualization is to be, is I think culturally, and, um, interpreted as to be, um, like this high sense of self. Like higher being up above on the top of even the hierarchy, right? Like the hierarchy.

Let's not even start on that. But I think it's actually just to know yourself. Like to me, my values-based definition of that is just to know yourself, to be grounded in yourself and to be that commitment to that becomes before other things. Um, and that you're up to bring that. So I'll, I'll blame Maslow.

Maestro: I like, and I want to continue with that. You said it comes before other things. What if you were to draw it out? If you were to create, no, it's not a hierarchy. If you were to create a, a, a schematic of this, what, what would you put and where? 

Laura Jean: Yeah. I, I mean I did say before, I suppose it's nested really like, but at the center and at the outside I think is us.

Ourselves. Like we're in the center of it, but we're also, everything's nested. We're nested in, but everything's nested in us. Like our business, our relationships is nested in us and we're also nested in the middle. So it's, it's all, it's all about us. It was really interesting.

And I know you talked about selfish recently. I read, I was listening to the um, will Smith, um, story. You know, and he talks about Yeah. And he talks about this, um, therapy session where he and Jada go together and they're asked to put, what are your top five priorities? Or whatever it is.

And Jada's like the kids, Will, then me. And Will's just like me. And I was just like the first, when that first hit me, I was just like, what an asshole. What an asshole. No wonder your relationship, you know, like I brought all my judgment and hat tip for anyone out there that has a bit of judgment stuff, cuz we all do, again, self-actualization doesn't mean you get rid of your judgment. It means, to me it, it, it's an opportunity to know what did that tell me? And it told me a lot. About myself and my own values. And I've been sitting with it and it's really, I mean, I listened to it a while ago, but it's been sitting there because whenever I come up against it, and I think, but actually, what if that is the absolute definition of self-care, of self love that we parrot, is us first so, you know, I'm looking on Will a bit kinder, um, as a, as a, I suppose my parent brand. Cause as a mom, like, I'm like, and I don't know if it's mom specific, but I'll, I am a mom, so I'll say as a mom, like, I don't know if I could, you know, on a, on a le if I had to write it down, but, but, um, but again, even that is sometimes like, because I'm supposed to, like I'm, I'm, I should be putting that first.

 But actually in my actions when I live into my values, a lot of it is putting me first. I mean, I can't leave and go and live in my cabin in the woods by myself though I'd like to, but I can take those moments. And, you know, iced coffee time, I mentioned that in my thing in one of my knowables,

um, which you talk about in the IG Intensive. Plug. Great program. Um, but having your knowables you know, I didn't go set out to, to be that, but this was part of being seen, heard a known, right. So it's like a, uh, at a micro level it's this moment where I just take a moment in my day to ground and rest and take a breath.

Um, and I just like iced coffee, how iced coffee taste, um, and my little sensitive gastrointestinal system can't have hot coffee. Um, and, but at a macro, at a, at a, the next level up at the meze level, I think that's the next one. It shows my kids that I have needs, this is my time. They know what iced coffee time is.

Um, I don't know if I told this story last time I was on, I dunno if we talked about iced coffee time. But anyway, there was this one moment where I realized, yes, my work here is done. Where I was out on the deck having my iced coffee time, my little hyper connected kiddo, um, was like looking for some connection from me.

I'm like, I'm just having my con coffee time. And then we'll, we'll do often if she's home, I'll do a little connection first cuz she's gonna need it. Anyway, she goes over to her sister and says, oh, do you wanna play? And she goes, I'm having my iced coffee time. 

Maestro: Your work here is done. 

Laura Jean: My work here is done.

Um, so like at that level, but then at the bigger level, it's like, it's that, it's, it's, it's writing my name on the list first. It's actually changing that cultural, social norm of who says that moms have to put their kids first. And I'm not saying you don't have to, but I think that we have the opportunity to ground in our own values and say, what does that actually mean?

And we don't have to write it down, we don't have to do the list. That might feel uncomfortable, but with our actions, we can like actually put ourselves first, not just the pretend, fill up your cup so you can fill somebody else's. Put on the. Not that, you know, surface level stuff, but actually deep in yourself.

How do you act? How do you show up and how do you feel? And like, so yeah. Anyway, so I've been a bit kinder to Will Smith in my head and judgment as I've kind of grappled through it and, and worked through it. Um, I'm, I'm not there yet. I'm not at Will level, but, and you know, I think that what I would say is like, he had that, but then he also had a lot of the cultural values of, of, of him, of, of, of all of his identities and, and his, you know.

 Like, there's other stuff that goes on, I don't think, you know, maybe, and we can look at his choices and go, well that's because you're a selfish dickhead. Um, cuz you put yourself first on the list. It doesn't have to be that. 

Maestro: If you folks have that listened, no, no, I have a bunch of things to say.

I'm gonna push this button so the thing doesn't go off. Again. If you folks haven't, one, if you haven't read, um, Will's book, um, and you're interested, I would recommend it and listen it, listen to it. It's actually very cool when you listen to it because it's him. Um, but he brings in the music side of things and it's, it's actually just like, it's like an, it's like an experience.

Um, I love that it gives context to things as well because shortly after the book was released, that's when he smacked, uh, Chris Rock in the face. And there was just no, I'm not here to condone or whatever, or whatever condemn anything, but just there's context given to someone's life by this book. Is it written by him?

Yes. So it's, you know, based through his lens, but there's context for things. Uh, and I, I, that part did stand out to me, but in the way that I was like, well, yeah, duh. Like, and that's also why you've had your success. Like cuz you're number, like, you're first in the list. But I love this nested conversation because so much in how I think people view things or were taught to view things, taught to view things is is in this binary of if you're putting yourself first as a mom, that means that you hate your kids.

 There's no, like, you're putting yourself first, which means that maybe you went to therapy and now you can actually relate and you can hold space. Whatever you wanna consider that space, that, that phrase to be, and you can, you know, show up in a way that is best for all and helpful for all parties.

It's just like, if you are putting yourself first, that means you hate your kids and you would like throw 'em in the river. And I'm like, wh why did that, why is that?

Laura Jean: Might be some days…. 

Maestro: Certain days, right? That I don't understand why that's the, the thing that's, that's said there. I, you know, I love this, this concept of, of putting yourself first mainly because I actually don't believe that- Or rather, let me flip it. I believe that all actions are self-serving and it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

So even if we look at like, me choosing to take care of Rupert, I do that because if I didn't, I would feel bad. It's not like I am this, like, I don't even know, like I don't even know for certain, if I believe that like altruism actually exists, it's like we are doing it because if I didn't I would feel so bad.

So there's like a, a part of that and I think it's a bad thing, right? I, I like taking the time that Laura like, Laura Jean does and sitting and, and, and thinking about these things. So can we then, can you then blend the two for me, Laura Jean, and this idea of nesting or being nested, being nested, and communities of care.

How does that overlap? 

Laura Jean: Hmm. Yeah, I think, um, there's the piece of, we often think of what you were saying about the binaries and, but we often think of things of in competition to ourselves. So like, well, if I take care of me, then I'm not taking care of my, you know, if I'm doing that. And then we've got that next level of story of like, oh, but I take care of me to take care of the kids.

So, you know, there's the just like. But coming to that point of holding the both and of I can do both. And sometimes I have to do one or the other. And sometimes I can't always do that. And sometimes I'm gonna do a really shit job at both and sometimes, you know, all of that kinda stuff. So it's that both and.

And so that's why I like the op, the, the idea of nesting. Um, and kind of like, you know, um, those like, like, like, you know, if you think of like concentric circles, so like nesting in kind of like that sort of space. Um, and so I think if we think about community, if I think about how I think of like an ecosystem of care, um, is that me as a human, I'm nested inside other spaces. 

So like, you know, you, me, in this conversation and they're nested, we're nested in everyone who's listening to us, nested inside, like the podcast world. If we wanna go down that nest. Or we're nested inside these different groups. So like, it's different. It's, and even that, it's like, it's not like a real actual visual cause it's like millions of different spots that we are can be nested in or nested inside.

And so with that, ecosystems of care, it's like that opportunity, you know, if you think about the, if you wanna think about like the little babushka dolls nested, like we're held. 

Maestro: That's exactly what I'm thinking about. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. Like you can get, yeah. See it's cuz we're twins, right? Um, like you get the opportunity to be held but also hold as well.

So I like that part cuz if you think about even like a bird nest, you know, a nest, it holds, it holds the, holds, the little bubbas, little eggs and the, and the birdies and everything. So they only build it for like when they're having their eggs. They don't live in necessarily live in their nest all the time.

It's just for when they're, um, having their little bubbas to, to hold them. Um, and so, yeah, I feel like that is probably something that comes up for me when I think about how it relates into ecosystems of care. That's, and also it's that cultivating it, right? Because we do, I think we do all want to be seen, heard, or known.

Um, and we do all want, you know, people often talk about, it's so hard to find friends as an adult or whatever, but, and if we go back to that selfish thing, we kind of feel like we can't ask for what we need or ask for what we want. And I feel like we can create ecosystems of care where we don't always have to ask.

Actually, I was talking to James Olivia a few months ago and we were talking about, I was talking about my garden of course. Of course I was talking about my garden. Um, and just like the feeling and, and I then I'm followed up the next day and I, and I was sharing with them, I was like, yeah, it's because that my, my garden like holds me like, like I feel held.

I have a sense of being held when I'm in it and my needs get met. I can ask my garden, which might sound weird to people cuz it's a garden, but it's. Extend our idea. I can ask my garden for needs to be met and just being there, it meets my needs without me asking. And that is what I think an ecosystem of care is. Because I want spaces where I don't always have to ask for what I need, but also where I'm known, seen, known, heard enough that it's not like I'm expecting people to use mental telepathy because that again, there's that binary it's like, well, I don't wanna have to ask, so you better bloody know versus cultivating these spaces where the, uh, aim or the idea of it is to hold people and to care for them and to relate in a way so that when it doesn't happen in a way that you, like, you can let people know. Or when it doesn't happen in a way that you like, you have the grace that you're held in this space that you can be like, well I know this was where they were coming from.

Cause I know, I see them, and I hear them. Um, yeah, that's what's coming up for me as you ask that question 

Maestro: Profound folks. I'm sitting here. And I'm, I'm going back, I keep going back to the nesting dolls cuz it's just the easiest. But one of the things you said about the opportunity to be held, but also holding, and in my mind, I I, in my mind, I take it a step farther and I'm like, because there's like a size thing because of physics.

So if we have like a tangible, concrete thing, then like the thing has to be smaller to fit inside. But when we extrapolate this to humans and relationships, it doesn't need to be that. That it can be just, you know, the same, the same things that holding and being held. And I'm like that, that, introducing that to 'em, like, that's so cool.

And yes. 

Laura Jean: Yes. It's the first reason I didn't go to babushka dolls because there is the- and then the bigger one never gets held by anything else, right? 

Maestro: No. No. It gets dropped. 

Laura Jean: Everyone needs to be held. Yeah. Gets a crack in it. Everyone takes care of that little bloody baby one.

Maestro: Everyone. 

Laura Jean: But it is so cute. 

Maestro: Whole entire stack. All of them. 

Laura Jean: Yep. And, and you know, even people, it's like, don't lose the baby ones. The baby one's the most important. Which, you know, culturally we do have that. But yeah, like, so, um, I'll work on thinking about, uh, something where, we're held and hold it's probably a water thing.

I have to play around with it. 

Maestro: You let me know. 

Laura Jean: I'll noodle on it. 

Maestro: You let me know. I feel like it's gotta be a garden thing. 

Laura Jean: Well, well the ne if we use the bird's nest, the nest holds the eggs, but the nest is held by the tree, or whatever it's in. Oh. So we could use that one. We'll use that for now.

Use this. Let know if I find a better one or a more fitting, I should say. No hierarchy .

Maestro: So, so intentional with the words. And it makes me so happy. If we zoom out again, we zoom out, but also zooming in cuz I wanna stay with this, uh, ecosystems of care. And I think we already answered it, but I, repetition is very important for me.

If we're looking at cultivating this, and then the next thing, I'm gonna put it out here so that in case I wrote it down, but just in case, we're also gonna talk about cultivating versus creating, because that was a really cool part of the discussion last time. But if we're thinking about these ecosystems of care, what would you say is the initial action item for cultivating that?

Laura Jean: Ooh. Like knowing yourself again? No, but you don't need to know yourself to start it, but to, I suppose it's asking, it's, it's knowing your needs as well. Like there's a lot of work that I, around that. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the f I don't know that there's a first. I think it's all like, it's, it's tendrily, maybe like the micorrhizal layer, which extends and weaves around the basin and roots of trees.

Um, it doesn't grow, it doesn't like push through. It just kind of like, infiltrates with not nefariously or maybe, maybe sometimes cuz it, it is like does feed off things but it also helps us very mutualism. Um, I dunno, I dunno if there's a first, I think start like, you know, we could, we could get to probably start where you're at. Like what's available capacity, resource-wise?

Maybe it's just with you being, I caring for you. Maybe it's asking, you know, I think of like my early mum phases and stages and what I needed to cultivate then was really different. So I think it really is, depends on the season of life, but it also depends personally on where you're at.

Resource capacity. Like, you know, I talked about the produce share that I set up, which is one of my very intentional activities I did. And not everyone's got the capacity or the desire. Not everyone wants to share produce, but you know, you find your own thing. Needling. Crochet, whatever. Um, but like, where can you start or where what's, and you can start with your values as far as like, you know, mapping them out, thinking like, where am I acting into my values and where do I want to act or live more into them?

And maybe start there. Like if it's connection, if it's, um, you know, maybe it's around work, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's around personal stuff. I, I don't know. I don't know if there's a first step. Yeah. 

Maestro: I'm interested. 

Laura Jean: You got me. 

Maestro: I'm looking up. 

Laura Jean: You stumped me. Not stumped.

Maestro: There's a spider and a bee and I'm like, I'm invested.

So I'm trying trying not to but I'm like, that's a big, that's a battle that's 

happening there. 

Laura Jean: It's, it's nature playing out 

Maestro: That is. Exactly. I'm like let it go. I'm letting, letting rock here. Like, I'm not gonna intervene here. Uh, but if we circle back to this, I feel like an argument can be made in my head. I'm making an argument to myself about if there, if, if I had to pick a starting point, yes you can, you can only start with where you're at. But if I had to pick a starting point, and if I'm thinking of like what allows the other things to, cuz it is, you know, cyclical cycle and, and, and, and such. But I really think that what you said earlier about seeing, knowing hearing yourself is so profound.

And because you can't, in my opinion, it would be very difficult to ask for something unless that thing that you're asking for initially is like, I need the space, I need help with cultivating the capacity, the space so that I can take a beat to see and hear and know myself and then go from there. But I feel like that at like a foundational level-

cause also thinking about the nesting you, like, you, I love that idea of you in the middle and you on the outside there. And I'm like, if we don't, if we haven't started leaning into that and giving our space, giving ourselves space to feel like we belong, within it ourselves. I feel like it becomes very difficult to, to do anything else from there.

Not that it's wrong or you can't, but if someone was like, where would I start? 

I'd be like, with yourself. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. I think that needs to like accept and wherever you are along that, like even if it's just firstly accepting you have needs, that's okay. That's then 

Maestro: That's huge, man. 

Laura Jean: Yeah. Well, yeah, absolutely. And then, then just that would be where I would start.

Like what are your needs or where are you not being seen? Like if we come back to that piece, like what parts of you aren't being seen, heard, or known? What are the conversations that you feel like you're not having or what are the bits of you where there's no other human, no space where that is. And I really, um, the first time I came across kind of the start of this idea of concept around was like the concept of communities of care, which is a very specific, um, call from marginalized groups, um, around, well, under-resourced, let's say, around resourcing and things.

The first time I heard it was in early season of motherhood and I was like, Mother fuckers. I'm like looking after my, I, I'm caring for more people than I can. Like, I was just like, my first re visceral reaction was no fucking way. I have got no more to give. And so I've sat with that for a while, but also I've recognized that in a true community care or ecosystem of care, people are held when they are in that space and phase.

And when you're in different seasons, you have more to give maybe, or, and it's not even about giving. And this is the thing too, I wanna take away from that idea of care, because often we think care, um, care for. We can have, we can care for people without taking care of. And that was a nuance I had to kind of learn to be able to really be, feel comfortable with using this word care in when I talk about ecosystems of care.

So care for, rather than take care of. So I, I should, yeah. 

Maestro: That's good. 

Laura Jean: Insert that piece in there. Because my first piece was like, I can't take care of it. No, I can't even take care of myself. I haven't showered in five days. Like, what, what, um, yeah, so yes, we can care and, and care can be more than just our, again, that cultural idea of taking care of it can be take care as in slow down.

Like, that's one of the, you know iterations of care that I really like. Like if we, if we get word nerdery and start looking at the word, like, what does it mean? How do we use it? Care. And like, you know, um, it can just be like respecting things, you know? Here's my, um, book, take care of it for like, and what I mean by that, I don't, you don't have to tuck it into bed, read a bedtime stories, give it about like, I just mean like, could you give it back to me so that I can, you know its conditions. So that's more about respecting and respecting the book, the, the thing, but also respecting me and our relationship and relat. So like, yeah. I suppose when I talk about that, I'm probably glad we got to this piece of nuance, that it's not ecosystems where we take care of each other. It's where we have care and we slow down and, 

Maestro: Good. It's fucking good. I wanna keep going on the, with the word nerdery. The nerd wordery? The, that. Cultivate versus create. What do you got from me? 

Laura Jean: Right. Our culture. I'll come back to it. Well, the systems were 

Maestro: It's the eyebrows for me. 

Laura Jean: Yeah, well the, if you're on YouTube, you get the whole effect.

I did say to Shante, I actually brushed them for her today because I was like, oh, they're gonna be on video and they'll be doing a, a lot of dancing. So I better get them in form. Normally, like I'll like do like an IG video and I'll be like, you know, doing the little caption thing afterwards and I, you know, you have to like watch yourself million times.

I'm like God, my eyebrows, like, I'm like, they're crazy. Um, they've got a mind of their own as far as how they move, but also like, they curl like, I've got curly eyebrows. Like, what, what? So like the end curls up, so like they don't just sit flat. Anyway, eyebrow, tangent. Sorry about that one. Um, so the eyebrows are dancing if you wanna see them.

They've also been brushed and cultivate, first create. So like all around us is this idea of like, take action. And I know, and I, when you say talk about action, because I know you, and this is like where knowing somebody and their values, I know what you mean by that. And that kind of action of really, which is I feel like it's almost like just the physical manifestation of knowing yourself is how, I'll, I'll put your, your that version of action.

But that whole idea of like, you know, we talked about it when we chatted on my podcast, the do the most, do the more. Like more action, most action. Move forward. Like, so creating, while I think if we looked at the, one of my most, probably most used websites on my phone is like the etymology, um, which is like the origin of words.

Probably when we go back to the start of the word of creation, it's a different thing. But create now is really about almost like a, a process we're in control of, of of, of bringing something into being right? Like we create, create content. We have an idea. And you talk, you know, this is amazing. You just brought something into life takes as long as it takes.

Um, and so like when we think about it from that point of view, it's like this process, we are, I won't say control cause I think control is an illusion, orchestrating, um, we're, we are choosing next steps, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So all that. So that's creation. And even when we're being, I suppose creative, we have an intention culturally now of, of something coming out of that, like creation, the word as we kind of use it now, something will exist after we've created.

Right? And when it comes to wanting to have these ecosystems of care or a business or something online, when we use the word create, for me it, it's, it goes to the outcome. So I'm gonna create a business versus cultivate, which is about, in the gardening world, it's a, it is a gardening thing, but it means many things.

So you cultivate the soil, you prepare it for plants to go in, and then you cultivate the plants, those in your garden, you're nurturing and you're nourishing. So it's more about the process, and I think we're both twinning on the process versus the outcome. Whereas I feel like create, while the intention of that word may not have been that now through our cultural values or just the lexicon that we use, it means that something exists after you do it, right?

Cultivating is about the process. What am I gonna do? Maybe something gets created at the end, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe it fails. And if we'll give you a little bonus word nerdery, the original definitions or the original word meaning of both success and failure, success is to succeed. If anyone's watched that show succession, it's the thing that comes after.

So the original and non-value, like neutral definition of the word success is what comes after. And the definition of failure is when nothing comes after. If something fails, if a crop fails, it means the crop didn't grow. It doesn't mean like it's an existential crisis and you're the worst person in the world.

 So the, so the meanings of the word success, in fact, success something happened. Failure something didn't. Um, or you know, nothing. Nothing. I mean, know I'm very much paraphrasing, but that's basically what they mean. But now they're all loaded. Um, so they're 

Maestro: So loaded now.

Laura Jean: So cultivate, you might cultivate a success or a fail.

Something might come, the seed might pop up. The seed might pop up and then the birds scratch it out. The seed might pop up and then it gets dry. You forget to water it. But you cultivated, you still cultivated the soil, you still cultivated that. And the create what was created, while it can be an extension, it doesn't necessarily mean that you didn't cultivate that beautifully that you didn't care for and take care of that little seed.

You cultivated that. And there's other things. I think it, I think it, gives room for us to recognize that we are nested in all of those things and they will impact on what's happening and where we're going. And so when we, I think the word create or, or that intention to create with some things,

not with everything. Um, we're probably not gonna cultivate content cause we probably won't get very far. 

Maestro: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Laura Jean: Um, but when we're talking about things like relating, things that impact with relating, which is most things, but particularly our businesses, particularly these ecosystems of care, we can want to create them all we want and it's a want. Um, and what we can do though is we can cultivate and we can show up and we can, we can choose how we will show up, we can choose the values we'll be grounded in and how we will take care of ourselves, whether, regardless of that success failure situation, which is, you know, something happened, something didn't. Something happened, which I wasn't expecting, whatever it might be.

Maestro: So, good. Question with that. What word would you put at the end of this? So if we're gonna say cultivate and yes, backing it up, because I wrote, I'm writing things down as you're going, and I was like, process versus outcome. And then you were like, process versus, I was like, good. I could cross that off. I don't have to bring that up cause Laura just hit it.

Um, if we're gonna put language to this and reframe thoughts, if we say, let's say the language for this was like, I wanna create a business. Would we take it back a step and say, I want to, I want to cultivate X that would ultimately allow a business to thrive? Like is there, what, what language would we, what, what would that sentence look like?

Laura Jean: Yeah. I suppose there's both and cuz you are creating something, right? You're beginning out there, you're doing things like, it is a very much more entity exists, right? Like, kind of like the content and entity is exists. So we can we create our business? I kind of, the word I like around the business one is evolve to throw another word in there. 

Maestro: I'm here for all the words.

Laura Jean: So like, we evolve, probably evolve every business, follow words. Um, but create, I think fits there still. What we cultivate is, yeah, the process and, and the outcome when we're creating is the business. It's not the things that the business leads to, right? It's, it's the thing. It's like the things we can create is the thing we can create. Like we aren't go, gonna control that. So I don't know what a sentence would be for that. We are creating, well what I bring back businesses, if we think of that nesting thing, like a business is an opportunity, is a space that you hold right to, to, to be seen in a, but it's also a space that holds you and meets your needs.

So business I feel like is just a tool, an instrument for meeting, getting our needs met, whatever those needs might be. There might be like physical needs or, or even emotional needs. So I think really what then we are creating a business that cultivates a space to get our needs met or, or do our best darn try.

Maestro: I am so here for that and the gymnastics that maybe you had to go through. Just rewind folks if you, if you need and listen to that again. 

Laura Jean: You just saw my process. 

Maestro: Yeah. I'm like, it is important because the reason I asked the question is, uh, you know, as a coach, working with people, you can look to highlight certain things and put emphasis on, on, I'm not going to control their, their, um, process, but we can look to really highlight things even in the content I create.

If I talk only about the outcome, people only want the outcome. If I highlight the process, people start being more interested in the process. And so for me in li listening to you, I'm like, how do I speak more intentionally about business, so that it's not viewed as this, this, this thing, uh, it's so that it's not viewed in a way of, you know, loaded thing.

It's not viewed in. Uh, and people are gonna view it however they want, but I think that I can still put things out into the ether in the way, you know, so that I am, I am happy about how that gets portrayed. Um, so that's where that question came from with that. But staying on the topic of business, you have created something, Laura Jean, and I think you're presenting it today.

Laura Jean: Mm, I am. When we're recording. Yeah, that's one thing I've created. Created 

Maestro: What is it? Can you talk about that ? 

Laura Jean: Oh! Today I'm just doing a webinar. Just, just just a webinar.

Maestro: Just, just, just webinar. Just what is that? Let me know. 

Laura Jean: Today's webinar is, um, Marketing without Manipulation. So, 

Maestro: Tell me more, Laura Jean.

I asked this question intentionally. Well, two parts. One, because I want you to pitch your shit, but two, you did a phenomenal post, uh, I don't know, yesterday, two days ago. And then we had a talk conversation in the DMs and you were like, uh, you know, your defensiveness, not to me, that person's defensiveness is not my confusion.

And I was like, that's so good. Um, can we talk about that? 

Laura Jean: Yes. So marketing without manipulation. So basically what I see often for health professionals, particularly because I'm a health professional, is that's a stuck point. Like the values that we have as clinicians and the values that we see being used in marketing, particularly in the online space, is a massive disconnect.

And so what if we go back to that binary couple of conversations ago, we see the option is either, we either ditch our values and and market in the way we're being taught or we don't market. Neither of those are going to be sustainable, and they're definitely are gonna be regenerative, but neither of those are gonna take us where we wanna go.

Right? Um, so I like hanging out in the middle, but also it's not a binary anyway, so we're just gonna talk about what even is marketing? Why does it feel icky? So going back to those, and it's all about value. Spoiler. Um, and how do you find your way that works, however you wanna define it for you? Um, and that gets you what you want.

And it is gonna be about cultivating, cultivating those spaces. Um, and also talking about like, these are the strategies I suppose that we see used in, in traditional marketing. And, and actually then I'll just be like talking about how do we put the relating into those? Like how do we flip it? Okay. That's the strategy.

It works. How do we make sure we're doing it grounded in our values? If we're gonna use some, we might throw in the bin. If you are grounded in your values, how will you use it and what will it look like to, to do that with the relating being the kind of driver. So that's kind of the webinar. Um, yeah.

So I did do a post the other day, um, and I knew I've, I've had this post in my head for ages, um, and I was like, I knew it would be work for this, you know, it was an intentional drop. I knew it would get a few eyes on it. Um, I actually thought I'd get maybe a little bit more, but I've cultivated a, an ecosystem of people's who

Maestro: I was like, it's your people. 

Laura Jean: Yes. So for the, for context, I just put a thing up talking about manipulation in marketing because that's what the roots of marketing of the tra of the online space and, and the current kind of paradigm is manipulative, right. The, it's, it's based on like a couple of like white dudes read this, dudes get a book about like, Dating, winning the dating game, I think it's called the Game.

Um, there's that, and then there's this other book where a guy like looked at what happens with marketing and he wrote this book as so that people could actually resist to see it and resist. And so some white dudes got together and put together both of those things. Basically. You know, this is where a lot of, um, modern marketing is, and it looks at the psychology.

Why do people do choices? And we can have that information. We can go either way. And current marketing decided to go one particular way, which is how can we use that to make more sales? And literally you can Google psychological marketing triggers and these articles are like, and so this is how you can use this one.

Like it's, it's like, we've said the quiet part, like the quiet part out loud bit is like, you know, 10 years ago with traditional marketing, like they're saying it out loud and they're like being really clear. So the point of that post was to say, Hey, this is the background. Like these are the underlying values of these behaviors.

This is why they came about. I'm not saying that's why you are using them. Um, and we can even talk to you like, I know you use the early bird pricing, which was one of the things I talked about in that. But I know you and I know your values and to me to, just to tell you what you do, I would say you, I know you do it to incentivize, like, to encourage people to take action because that is a big part of your brand and who you are, is to get her take action.

So you have that to say, Hey, if you are my people and you wanna ready to take action here, go and here's a little bonus. Like, that's it. I like, you know, like, that's how I see how you use that. So I was putting that up and I knew you would read it. Well, I thought you'd read. I, mean I don't assume you read everything I write. 

Maestro: I read it all.

Laura Jean: Um, and because we relate and we have relationship and I was very clear with my wording in that, that this is the background of it and this is what it, the impact can be. And yeah, my values definitely came through. I think I put a little slide, you know, a little snide side of like bonus oppression, you know, people who can't afford, you know, like, yeah.

So yeah, my values came through. I'm not pretending to be a neutral party. Anyway, so I got a comment that said, ask me a lot of questions. And it's like, um, if I parrot James Olivia, like James Olivia often talks about it, about like how we pretend confusion to like, or like we ask a question cause we want to lead somebody somewhere.

Anyway, I was kind of like, wanted to say, do, do you read the caption or the post? 

Uh, because it's not what I said. Um, because like in it, I'm, I'm really clear, like I don't want to, people will interpret what you say through their own values and their lens, and that's the business, right?

Maestro: Always. Yeah. Always. 

Laura Jean: Um, yeah. So it just, I suppose it gotta interpreted as in I'm saying things are bullshit, but I didn't say things are I said they're based in bullshit. 

Maestro: No, they're based then That's completely different. 

Laura Jean: Yep. That's the ba you know, like, so if we wanna get wordy, so there was some semantics.

That's okay. I took my deep breath, I grounded in my values and I was like, well, what do I want? I was like, well actually no, like, I don't want to. And, and was kind of, I suppose like a snide, smiley face emoji. That I don't have any alternatives to offer. And anyway, so I was just like, excuse me, but, and I just replied, I suppose with my values.

Oh no, I didn't take it personally or anything. I was like, that's your, your filters, you filtered it through it. Um, and that's cool. But this is what I was saying. But I mean, sometimes I wouldn't even, you know, I wouldn't do anything in an arguey way, but just more like, 

Maestro: No. I saw it and I was just like, I just, maybe if you, if you folks are ever wondering things like that, I, I'm never the person that's like, I'm gonna hop into the comments.

I just screenshot things and send it. And I was like, Laura Jean looks like somebody didn't wanna read today. Bless you. People are out here being peopley and it happens, and then we get to choose how we relate with them. Uh, but I was like, we'll definitely bring that up in the podcast episode because I wanted to promote the webinar because I, I know that you folks listening to this feel some kind of way about marketing and advertising and, and online business and things like that.

And I want you to have all the best resources. I want you to have all the options, particularly or the best. I, I want, I'm not taking it away. I want you to have the best resources, what I consider to be the best. Um, and so I wanted to make sure that Laura Jean mentioned that today,. This episode's gonna come out way after it's done, but there's a replay and you can buy the, we'll call it the recording. Um, so that will be linked in the show notes. Um, I'm cognizant at the time cuz I have to wrap this up as well. I'm realizing that I have a call coming up soon, but two questions for you, Laura Jean. Number one, if the people want more m o a r of you, where can they find you?

Laura Jean: So I hang out, um, at dietitian values and normally I don't have to spell that often, I'm talking to dietitians. So it's d i e t i t i a n, no C in dietitian. Just in case you weren't sure. 

Dude, it's 

Maestro: hard. It's hard. 

Laura Jean: It is, it is.

Maestro: It's actually very hard. I have, I struggle with that one. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

Laura Jean: Yeah. So it's diet titian, um, rather than with a C, it's two T's and that's where I hang out. dietitian values, anywhere and everywhere. That's my website. That's my Instagram. You won't find me on Facebook. Um, well, you'll find me, Laura Jean, but I don't do anything over there. Um, and my podcast as well, dietitian values, which, uh, Shante has been on, uh, twice.

Repeat offender. Um, yeah, so people wanna do that. Um, and I will general genuinely say that I, I really love continuing the conversation, so I'm here to converse and connect about this stuff. Um, whether it's word nerdery, whether it's gardening, or whether it's just, I dunno what else we talked about lots of things.

 So do reach out if, uh, what I'm sharing jives, I suppose for you. Um, and yeah, I will have that. I've got a couple of little on-demand webinars, so if that one sounds interesting, if you're interesting in things like trauma informed business practices, I got one on that and one on around, yeah, bringing your values into parts of your business as well. Um, and I do work with people one-to-one, so creating that space. So that is where we talk about alternatives because I'm not gonna bring out my values based way and say, this is what you should do. Um, we'll we would work together to find your values and where you wanna do it.

And it's interesting cuz I feel like a lot of the information I put out is not very strategic, and then when I get in calls with people, like it's often very strategy focused. Um, 

Maestro: Action items that makes sense. 

Laura Jean: But, you know, it's, it's not, yeah, it's not necessarily what I talk about as such.

But anyway, but I'm here for all of it. I'm here for the nested, cultivating word nerdery conversations, all the down and specific strategies that bring you back to your values or the, the act, like how do I make this decision? Like, had somebody recently we, you know, they were trying to choose between going back to working or staying in their business.

It's like, how do I make this decision with my values? And we walked through that process. So, 

Maestro: This, there's the resource that you folks maybe were looking for, and it makes sense, Laura, that you put kind of the wide, uh, out on social and that to me is very in alignment with your values because it's gonna be dependent on that person.

Even when I asked you before, like, Hey, where's the starting point? And you're like, it depends on where they're starting and where they're at, the actual person. And so it makes sense that the things that you're putting out there are more generalized or generalizable. And then for those that are, can, can say, yeah, this, this might be for me, then things get strategic and specific and yeah, obviously very actionable. So, yes. Last question before I hop off, is there anything that you wanna leave the people with? 

Laura Jean: Oh, I should have thought about that. I listen to your podcast all the time. I was like, I know that's always the last question. Oh, what?

Um, I'll leave them with my favorite quote that I often ask. Um, and if we circle right back to the start of the conversation, we're planting seeds for a forest we may never get to spend time on. So when you're on the edge, keep throwing those seeds out. Keep throwing out the seeds. Um, and that's your, that's your business.

Cultivating what gets created. Whether the seed gets eaten by a bird or whether a beautiful forest flourishes, we don't know, but we stick in our lane. Or not our lane, but like, you know, focus on what we are here to cultivate, which is beautiful. Whatever. I won't say forest cause not everyone wants happening.

You know, whatever your thing is that you wanna cultivate, go out and do that. Plant the seeds for that. And, um, regardless of what may come, cause we might not be here to see it. And that's just the reality. Ah, keep throwing the seeds. 

Maestro: My friends. 

Laura Jean: Just keep planting them. It's like seeds. Maybe they won't, but maybe one or maybe many will flourish.

Maestro: I needed that one. It's a good one. Laura Jean, as always, it is my complete and total pleasure to speak with you. All the confirmation bias. You hear me, you see me, I feel known. It's a safe space. And just thank you for everything. Thank you for all that you share with everyone else. Thank you for the time.

It's freaking, I don't know, six o'clock in the morning now. Thank you for how you show up in this world and uh, thank you for all that you are cultivating, 


Thank you. 

Laura Jean: It's nearly seven. I can hear the kids getting breakfast going and stuff, so no one's called out yet. Um, I did hear a little, I was like, ooh, we might have a little visitor here in a minute, but didn't, didn't pop their head in.

Maestro: I love it. I love it. You folks listening, thank you. We know you could have been doing anything and you chose to listen to us and to for that we are both endlessly, endlessly, endlessly appreciative. If you liked this episode, if you loved this episode, if you're picking up while Laura Jean is putting down, do me a solid and go connect with her. That's it. Do me a solid and go connect with her.

Go relate. All right, that's all I got for you then. Until next time, friends, Laura Jean and Maestro, out.

Links & Resources For This Episode:

Follow Laura on Instagram: @dietitianvalues
The Authentic, human-centred marketing Webinar
Laura Jean's other webinars
The Dietitian Values Website
Dietitian Values Podcast
Dietitian Values Ep 98: Making the existing business bullshit obsolete with Shante Cofield
MOTM #343: Start with Your Values with Laura Jean

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