Full Transcript: MOTM #476 People-Pleasing, Perfectionism, and Finding Peace with Erica Webb

[Transcript starts at 1:42]

Maestro: Hello, hello, hello my podcast people and thank you for joining me for yet another episode of my favorite podcast. Today I have with me a guest and it only took me like three hours to get the tech set up and I'm embarrassed about it cuz this is something I pride myself on, that the tech is gonna work and then it didn't.

And guess what folks? All I had to do was restart the computer and everything is good. I can hear her, she can hear me. I don't sound like a robot. This episode has been a long time in the making. I've been asking and she was like, I will let you know when I'm ready. And I was like, autonomy is sexy. Okay, I won't keep asking.

And then I asked one more time and she was like, you know what, I am ready. So today I have with me someone who has been in the ecosystem for an incredibly long time. Uh, she actually is the moderator for my Mafia group. Uh, she came through the Instagram Intensive and I have just been honored and privy and privileged enough to have her in my ecosystem and be in her ecosystem for feels like eleventy billion years now. If I read her official bio, it says she is a registered counselor, mindful movement coach, and self-kindness advocate. She takes a mind body approach to supporting others, to befriend themselves and their bodies to help combat self criticism, I guess I could say, to help combat emphasis on the different syllable there, to help combat self-criticism, stress, overwhelm, and persistent aches and pains.

I am bringing this woman on today because I want you to understand that this is what building an online business actually looks like. So often we get stories and fairy tales that it happens overnight and you niche down and you do one post, and then you get, you hire a coach for a billion dollars and then suddenly you have $10,000 months.

It's not how it works. That process of nicheing down can be incredibly difficult, somewhat painful, usually pretty long. And I've been with Erica working through this and I want you all to hear what it actually sounds like to build an online business. So without further ado, welcome to the show, my good friend, Erica Webb.

Erica: Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. This is very exciting and I'm so pleased to be here.

Maestro: If you folks couldn't tell she's not from here. She's not from these parts. Erica's from down under, although she actually has like a little combo accent cuz there's like a French Canadian thing in there.

There is, yeah. And also, We love it. We're love, we're here for good accent. Everyone that's listening is like, shut up, Maestro. Just let Erica talk. She has a good accent. Not you. All right. All right. Alright, so Erica, I'm gonna pass it immediately over to you. I read the bio, but I want you to take us back cause you have a very cool background, um, and very interesting background.

So I'm gonna pass the mic and the question will be, can you take us back to before you had an online business and share with us whatever part of your story you feel like best encapsulates you? 

Erica: Absolutely. I'll go way back. Um, because my, I guess resilience in the online space, um, cuz you know, no, no kidding, when Shante says that it is not the, uh, smoothest path. My resilience in that space I think really stems from my, um, experiences in the corporate world and my kind of refusal, I guess, to go back to that life. Um, and I think that's a really important part of the story. So, um, I have always been the kind of person that is like, I love everything.

You know, like, I wanna try everything. It's like I could be this, I could be that. I could be, you know, anything. I would love to try to be everything if I could. And so I had this kind of, um, life I guess peppered with lots of different things. And I really didn't have a very clear direction on what it was that I wanted to do.

It was like I could do all the things. Um, I spent a long time thinking that I wanted to do something in the forensic world, which is really funny when you actually know me cause I'm incredibly sensitive. Um, And so I was studying, yeah, you probably dunno, this I actually studied, 

Maestro: I didn't know that part.

Erica: Criminal justice administration. And it was a field trip to a high security prison that made me change my mind. Um, and very rapidly. It was like I had one path, went on this excursion and then was like, that's not for me anymore. Um, but basically I ended up in a situation where I was doing a, a double degree in law and behavioral science and I just burnt out.

I just was miserable. And so I rapidly kind of changed path and ended up falling into a, uh, a career, I suppose, in like public service, I guess is what you'd call it in the US um, in the government industry and, and not for profit. Doing social, um, social research, I guess. So like talking to the public, I wasn't really the person doing the talking, but analyzing research, analyzing data, writing reports, trying to make experiences for people better.

And it was fine. Like the work was good. I was pretty good at it. It was, you know, it was fine. Um, but I was miserable, like really miserable. I hated going into the office. I hated all the stuff that went on in that dynamic. Like there was just a lot of bullying. There was a lot of, um, you know, all the stuff that we see in a, in a kind of workplace that is not so well structured and run.

And so I left with just a sense of like, what is this world? You know, like, what is this? I don't wanna do adulting if it's like this, this is too much. So I had been doing yoga at the same time and I thought, you know, when am I most happy? It's when I'm doing yoga. And, um, so I just decided, you know what, let's just pull the pin on this career and become a yoga teacher.

Obviously that was gonna be lucrative, says no yoga teacher over. Um, and I also knew that I wanted to start a family, and so this seemed like a really good, you know, combination. I was like, I'll teach a bit of yoga, I'll have some kids, it'll be great. Um, and so I have taught yoga. It was just, you know, it was simple.

Math was simple. Um, became a yoga teacher, had two kids, and I worked sort of through that, that time as a yoga teacher, always for myself. I, I worked a little bit here and there for other people, but I mostly worked for myself because I was really kind of burned, I guess, by that early experience of working for other people.

Um, fast forward, I ended up burning out again, and it was less because of the work that I was doing as a yoga teacher and a movement teacher, and more because I had turned into a complete martyr, um, as a mom. 

Maestro: Okay. Oh! 

Erica: Yeah, so I had two, two kids, two little kids. They're only two years apart. My youngest was just a, a very unsettled baby.

And so I didn't sleep. I, you know, felt like I was a terrible mom because I didn't think these kids liked me. Um, I'd never asked for help. I didn't receive a lot of help, and I was just a, a mess. I really fell into a pit of like deep self-loathing and it was awful. It was, it was absolutely the darkest period of my life and I was still teaching yoga and love and light and all of those things, and it was all just very, um, what I realized was I wasn't turning a lot of what I, what I knew towards myself.

And so I guess fast forward a little bit, um, what I came to realize was that I was, you know, I just had very little respect for myself. I had very little love for myself. Um, and in 2019, I made the decision to pull the pin on all of my in-person classes. So it was actually pre pandemic, which is kind of crazy to think about now.

Maestro: Yeah, yeah. 

Erica: Um, and I moved my in-person business online. Um, and that was not received particularly well by my current clients. They were like, we like coming to your house. 

Maestro: Yeah. Makes sense. 

Erica: Doing yoga. 

Maestro: Yeah. 

Erica: Um, but it was one of those decisions that was like, well, this is like, this is the right decision for me.

 It felt very similar to the decision I made to leave the corporate workforce. It was kind of like, this is just like, this is what I have to do if I, um, if I care at all about my wellbeing, this is the decision that we have to make. And I, in that period, like there's like a lot of years I sort of skipped a lot of years, but in that period I had really come to, you know, love myself and like myself, which was really important, and respect myself.

And that part of all of that became a huge part of the work that I do. So that's kind of the backstory. Um, you know, nuttish sort of shell.

Maestro: Like, I have so many questions. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this one the top of mind. Cause I, I've been writing things down. We're talking about coming to love yourself.

You made two, I like this phrase, pull the pin. You said that twice, one was leaving the corporate world and one was leaving the in-person yoga world. Mm-hmm. Those were separated by a lot of time. And so it seems like when you left the corporate world, there was that self-love was there? Yes. No, what was that?

Erica: I think I've always had a real sense of self trust, but I didn't like myself at all. 

Maestro: Okay. 

Erica: Yeah, and I think this is the thing that's been really interesting to figure out actually, because there has always been that deep sense of knowing what I need. And I, and I always trust my gut. Like it, my gut has never, ever led me astray.

Um, all my important decisions have come from there. And, and yet a lot of the times I've made those decisions even in a state of, of like, honest self-hatred. Like I, I really 

Maestro: Wow. 

Erica: Have, and so I don't quite know how to, I don't know how to kind of marry those things up, but, um, 

Maestro: It exists.. 

Erica: Yeah. But you know what, that's the thing that I've come to recognize is that maybe I did love myself. Maybe I did. Because the thing is, that's probably been my biggest realization over these years, is that you don't have to feel loving towards yourself to be committed to acting lovingly towards yourself, right? Like you can take action that says like, I am important without having, without really necessarily feeling like, you know, what loving feelings, you know, feel like in the moment towards yourself.

Because we spend so much time kind of thinking well, if only I could prove my love to myself. Right? Like, if only I could prove that I'm good enough for my own love. If only I could prove that like I'm good enough already. Because I don't make mistakes. I never disappoint myself. I never let anyone down.

You know, like what, who, which human? Like find me a human who never does those things, right? Yeah. Um, and so the thing for me has been huge around this idea of like, I can love myself and still let myself down and still be completely imperfect and still do things that I wish I hadn't done. And then the foundation is still that desire to have a loving relationship with myself.

So maybe I did. It's a really good question. I actually don't know. 

Maestro: The duality, they are allowed to both, they're allowed to both exist. I was just like, wait a minute. What happened in the middle there? With, I'm gonna ask it cuz it's you, you had kids. Are we thinking that like just the physiological part of having kids could like-

did that heighten some of the like, less than nice thoughts? 

Erica: Possibly. Yeah. I mean, I had two kids really in fairly close succession. Um, maybe, maybe there was a, a physiology thing. I mean, I didn't sleep, like by the time I was pregnant with my second baby, I still wasn't sleeping. I still wasn't sleeping when that kid was born.

So it was just like the sleep deprivation was literal torture. Yeah. Um, and, and I like, I was always like, I was either always breastfeeding, pregnant, both, or sleep deprived. And 

Maestro: That's a lot. 

Erica: Like, I don't, I, we don't give women enough credit for this stuff. Honestly. It's crazy. 

Maestro: All you people that are carrying children, bless you.

That's, I know it's not for me. Like that is Wow. Because it's not done when you're done. 

Erica: Nope. 

Maestro: It's not done. It's just starting. My God. No, no. So that was the first one that I have written down. Let me, let me keep going with that. You, oh, I'm gonna back it up for a second. Makes total sense with what Erica says.

So we put on our business hats on for a second. Makes total sense. You make a decision to go from in-person to online that people are like, but I don't want this. Like, cuz they came into the store looking for in-person things. So if any of you are are listening to this, please be taking notes of all the things.

And there's a little business note. Like there should be two categories. Like one page is for life and then the other side's for business. And under business people came into the store. For one thing. If you change the store, we have to expect that some people are gonna be like, wait a minute, I really like you, but also.

So let's keep going with that timeline then. Uh, you decided to move things online. Then what?

Erica: Hmm. And here we are. Um, and now, um, so I moved things online and like I said, that was 2019. And so it was a really interesting situation actually, and it was very, um, I feel very lucky in the way that things kind of came together because I, so funny story, I had a friend, a girlfriend who was also a yoga teacher, and she said to me back in the day when like, yo, um, Facebook had just come out with business pages.

She was like, I think you should get a business page for yoga. And I was like, why would I do that? I don't, I don't wanna be on Facebook like that. Why would I do that? That's so silly. Like, cool idea. 

Maestro: Yeah, you were in-person. 

Erica: Anyway, I did eventually get one and I was like, thank goodness that she mentioned she sort of dropped that little, little clue.

Um, but I was really lucky because I was one, I wasn't the first person doing things online obviously, but I was certainly one of the first in my kind of immediate kind of, um, crew I guess. And so people were recommending me. Like, if you don't wanna go to studio, if you don't wanna do this, you know, maybe think about joining Erica's studio.

So I ended up with, I think, like 40 people joined from the start. Now it was like super cheap. It was like 15 bucks, 12 bucks for some of my, um, kind of clients that I had in person. So it was really cheap. So I wasn't breaking any, any records there, but it was enough for me to go, oh, this has got some legs.

Like this could actually work. So I kind of like used an open door, closed door model, like a launch sort of model for that. And so I closed the doors and then did like another launch, and I think I got maybe another 20 in that second launch. So I actually had like really good success early on.

 But since then, it's been very slow, um, in the sense that I have, I don't even know how to describe it, but I guess I've, I've had like kind of more of a, a steady in, out kind of situation, right? I don't do an open closed model anymore. It's just always open. Currently anyway. Um, and I've spent a lot of time, which I know we're gonna dive into, figuring out exactly who I'm talking to because over the period of time from, you know, end of 2019 till now, obviously a lot of stuff has happened and like all the people are on the internet. And I did not capitalize on lockdowns to push The Hub.

Um, I didn't, I just didn't, it didn't feel good to me, even though I knew that I could obviously help people. I wanted to help the people who were already there. So when I, when we sort of, when we had like all the lockdowns here where I am in, in Australia and, um, I really just focused on supporting the people who were there as best I could.

So we did a lot of live streams, we did a lot of, um, classes kind of over Zoom and it was awesome. It was really, really wonderful. In, in that time though, sort of once all of that, got a little bit better. Um, I decided that again, oh, my gut's telling me I don't wanna be teaching five live streams a week. I stopped teaching in person so that I had more freedom and suddenly I'm stuck attached to my computer again.

And so I've changed the structure of The Hub a few times. I've changed the name a couple of times. Um, and now it is kind of a hybrid model where I do maybe like five or six live streams a month. Um, and a lot of it is just DIY. Um, but I'm forever kind of trying to find that happy balance between what people want and need and what I'm willing to provide.

Maestro: That part. 

Erica: Um, and that's been a really important part of all of this because it's easy- it's really easy in the online world I think, when you have a lot of voices, and you have clients with opinions. Um, you know, I still have some of my in-person clients say, when are we going back? I'm like, we're not. Um, you know, I might do a workshop, I might do a workshop here and there in person, but like, you're not gonna find me opening my my doors cause I, I had a studio in the house.

Um, so you're not gonna find me opening those doors again. And like that's, that, that era is, is over. Um, but it can be really hard. Like I would identify as being a people pleaser to an extent. And, um, it's hard not to just be like, whatever you want, I'll do the things. Anything that you ask, I'll Just do it because you're gonna give me money and I'll make you happy and it'll be great.

So there's been a big part of that process of kind of refining what I'm offering because I want it to feel like it supports the life that I want, you know? Um, which is something that you have taught me very, very well, um, to like be living a life that I want. Because I didn't come into the online world or the business ownership world to just like recreate that crappy experience that I had in corporate. 

Maestro: That part. That part. That part right there. Can we back it up? Can you talk me through this? And I think it's gonna tie into the self-love stuff that you were speaking about earlier, because it's interesting cuz you said you've held- had self-trust from the beginning, which is why you're able to like, take these leaps. But the self-love portion of, I am not gonna just teach a zillion classes and I'm not gonna just do it this way because other people want it.

What was that switch like in your brain. Was that difficult? Was that hard? What was the work that went into that? 

Erica: I'm one of those people that's always doing the work. Um, I put that in bunny quotes for anyone who can't see us. Um, because I, I'm conscious of the fact that sometimes that just sounds a little, you know, eh, okay, cool.

Good for you. Um, but I'm, I'm always doing that kind of introspective work. Perhaps some people would say too, too much because I can be very introspective, um, to my own fault sometimes. But I guess for me, a big part of it actually is the fact that I don't wanna be a hypocrite, honestly. 

Maestro: Tell me more. 

Erica: It's, it's really, well, it's really interesting working in the wellness space because you are spouting a particular story, right?

You're sharing a particular point of view to support other people in their wellbeing. And my take on it is if I'm in the background, literally burning myself to the ground in order to share a message of wellness, it doesn't make any sense. 

Maestro: It's not the way. 

Erica: So I am really committed to sharing what I share through like a, like a, um, what's, what do we call that when we're like aligned?

Like, no, I don't wanna use the word aligned, but like, you know what I mean? Like we're, can't think of the word- aligned. I wanna do it in an aligned way where I am living what I'm teaching. It would be really easy not to do that because it's a lot easier to say the things than do the things. Um, and I've been, and I've done that before.

And, and like it doesn't mean that I always am practicing what I preach, because that's a big part of what I teach as well, is just like, bring more of your human self to the table please. Because you are not perfect. And, and that is perfect. And you don't need to be right. You know? So I'm not perfect in what I do.

 But it's been very much central to what I do, particularly in the last probably five years, that I have to live what I teach. And so it would be very easy to be like, yeah, we'll teach 15 classes a week, because that's what people want. It'll get more people through the door. I can charge a higher rate, whatever, but I don't wanna do it. Like the, and I, and I feel that in my body.

Like I just feel it in my body. It's just a straight up no, and I am much better at that. I don't know, maybe there's something that comes with getting older as well. You know? Um, I turned 40 this year and, and like, you know, you hear all these stories of people like, when you turn 40, you're gonna be, and you're like, and I'm like, they're not even wrong.

Like, they're not even wrong. It is so much easier to be, yeah. 

Maestro: I feel it coming. 

Erica: This is what I want. 

Yep. It's, it's so true. And so yeah, there's that, there's that element of wanting to be, um, honest, I guess and truthful in, in what I share and, and living it. And I also just like, I can't ignore myself.

Like, I actually can't ignore those gut feels. 


Maestro: Erica, take me back a second, because the word you're using is easier. You're like, it would be easier to run 15 classes a week and make money, you know, charge higher, get more people through. What does that actually mean in terms of, is it, is that easier?

What does that, what does easier mean? 

Erica: Hmm, good question. 

It would be easier because it, when I say easier in that context, I guess, I mean easier from a, um, a mental, am I keeping the people happy kind of place? Um, I know that in the, in the, in the lots of conversations that we've had over the years, you are one of the very few people who I know who hasn't, who doesn't really get it.

Like in the, who doesn't get it. You get me, I know you get me, but you don't get that self-kindness sort of piece. You don't get that because you, you just live it. You just are that, you just do it. You don't have to learn it because it's who you are. But for most of us, um, it is the, the mental anguish, I guess, of following your gut or following your heart or following your way can be really tough to reconcile when you are, when you've kind of grown up or, or learned that in order to be worthy and to, in order to be loved, you have to please the people around you.

So it would be easier just to please the people around you. You know, like it would be easier for me just to be like, what pleases you? And I'll do that because it's familiar to me. It's comfortable even though it would, it, it, it's not comfortable in all the ways, but it's comfortable from that kind of, um, yeah.

Like there, there's a bit of mental arithmetic that goes on, I guess, to be like, people wanna do this, but I wanna do that. And I feel like, uh, what if they don't like me anymore? You know? Um, and so the, the lack of ease, I guess, like the both are actually easy in their own way, but the lack of ease comes from that, I guess, argument in your head of like, am I re, is it really okay to center myself and to prioritize my needs?

And like my answer now is always yes, it is. Yeah. Um, but it took me a while to get there for sure. 

Maestro: This, is fascinating to me. You used, you used the phrase mental anguish and I'm like, that is such a heavy and powerful word, uh, phrase. Easier, doesn't mean happier. 

Erica: No, no.

Maestro: Like, as I'm listening, easier because there's less mental anguish because you know like yes, that this will please the people and I've been told to do this. 

Erica: Yeah. 

Maestro: It's familiar. It's seemingly, seemingly safer, but it's not, this spectrum this continuum of like easier and happier. They're not. They're not. They're not even the on, I don't think they're even related. Throw that out.

I'm like, oh, okay. Easier and familiar and subsequently thinking safer. That makes so much sense. So that in mind with what you just said, where you are on the other side of this now, and you've answered the question, wouldn't it be easier, wouldn't it be safer to, like, would there be less mental anguish?

Would it, whatever? You have data now. What made you actually believe the data? 

Erica: Hmm. What made me believe the data?

I think it comes. Hmm, that's a really good question. I think it comes back to that, that trust that I've apparently always had that I, I didn't always necessarily know that I could trust. And I think, I think this is really an interesting thing. I tend to not talk about the esoteric very much at all. Cause I don't think like that, right?

I'm, I'm pretty grounded, um, in what I can see. Um, however, there is a part of me now that just knows what I'm sensing for in, in the thing that I trust, right? So like I, like I've mentioned a few times, I feel it in my gut when I know that I'm right or when I know that I'm taking the right path for me. And I've just learned to trust that, um, because as soon as I get out of there and I get right up in my head and I overthink things, I will almost always go in a direction that I don't intend. Like a good example of that actually is, um, I flew to LA for BossUp.

Maestro: Yes, you did. 

Erica: And like that was the biggest deal, um, in my world. It was, I mean, you knew once I, once I got there 

Maestro: Exactly, I was like, should I come pick you up?

Erica: Complete, freak out. But it was really, it's, it's a really good example. Like, I sat there, I saw that the tickets had come out and my body said, go. Like it was just un- like, I could not ignore it. It was like, my body says go. And I was like, that makes no sense. It's gonna cost me like a million dollars. It didn't, but like, you know, it's gonna cost 

Maestro: She's in Australia folks. So actually 1 million.

Erica: The dollar was terrible. Like the dollar was like 50 cents or something. It was insane. I have to leave my kids, which I'd never done before. I have to get on a plane by myself, which I'd never done before. I have to figure out how to use a goddamn Lyft, which I'd never done before, which was the thing that created all the problems when I landed.

Um, and I have to go and like meet people who I, I like, feel like I adore. But I've never met in person. Like, is this a, is this a crazy thing to do? Like, is this wild? But my gut said yes. And so I bought the ticket and I was like, but then my head's like, you're, you're stupid. What are you doing? Like, why are you doing this?

And so I've learned to trust the feeling more than the thoughts. 

Maestro: God. Yeah. 

Erica: It doesn't mean that I ignore the thoughts because, you know, like if, if the thoughts had been convincing enough I possibly would've changed my mind, but, um, I'm just much better at, at feeling what is true for me than I ever used to be.

Um, or maybe it's more that I'm, I'm more confident in choosing that direction. Cause I think I've always felt it, but it's like I've, I feel really confident in that inner sense of knowing. Um, which, like I say, little, it's a little out there, I guess, but I don't, I actually don't think it is. I think we all feel that.

But we just don't, and maybe people feel it in different places, right. Like for me it's very gut-based. I think for other people it's like, can be heart or head or whatever. But, um, starting to trust that. Trusting, trusting like the body's wisdom ultimately, um, I think is huge. 

Maestro: Have I, I wanted to say, have the voices quieted, but that sounds like is schizophrenia. 

Erica: I get that. I get that.

Maestro: Has, has the, have the thoughts gotten kinder over time? 

Erica: Yes and no. I, so, as you know, I work as a counselor as well as a movement coach. And the, the thing that I think is really interesting for, for humans to understand is that the thoughts can get kinder, but it's sort of like not a prereq, not a prerequisite for doing what makes sense for you.

So yes, the thoughts have gotten kinder with practice, but keep in mind that I've been doing this for like 10 years. Um, like a really strong focus on self-kindness, self-compassion, trust for 10 solid years. And, yes, my thoughts are much kinder now, but the main thoughts still come up. I'm just much better at getting space between them and like what I decide to do next.

And that is the, that is the tool, you know, as and as a business owner. Cause I know that's sort of like where we're going with this, but like as a business owner, being able to like get space between the thought of like, I'm terrible at this. I'm never gonna be successful. This is terrible. I should just burn the whole thing to the ground, and like what I decide to do next, is the key.

Because like, you know, our brain just thinks, it just thinks it doesn't, we don't, we say, Hey, I'd love to have a thought about how awesome I am. I mean, we can do that, but also our brain's just gonna like fire some things off and give us like a picture of doom and gloom or a worry or a anxiety. And we can either think, oh, okay, that's true, my brain only provides me with accurate information, which we know is not true. Um, or we can get some space and be like, huh, that's so interesting. I'm having the thought that I'm terrible at this. I wanna burn it all down. I'm useless. I'm hopeless. Nobody loves me. Huh. Interesting. You know, and… 

Maestro: Fascinating. It's fascinating because we had a Mafia dinner last night. I brought in Rachel Strickland. We've had that, we've had her on the podcast before. If you could link that. Thank you Courtney. Um, and actually a different Erica in the Mafia. You have not met Erica. This is Erica, but a different Erica.

So there's four in there now. 

Erica: So many. 

Maestro: Um, Erica Marcano, she asked about, she had a question and one of my answers to it was, at certain times with business, we actually wanna compress that. For people that are ideators, we actually need to compress the time between idea and action. Cuz they'll just like come up with a million fucking ideas and it's like, we gotta pick one then take action.

 This is the opposite. Where you wanna actually, and like, this makes so much sense and we're gonna segue into like kind of the work you do and things like that. Because we know that the breath gives us a pause, it gives us a pause to actually respond as opposed to react. And it's fascinating to hear that you, that's what you have to lean into is I actually need space in between these thoughts and what I do because if I act immediately, I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna do the thing.

So can you speak to how, speak about how this and let's say creating this space in this moment, how does that tie into the work that you do? 

Erica: Hmm. What I'll say first actually is just that I am actually an incredibly quick action taker, which, you know. Like, I'm like, I'm starting a podcast and then there's like three episodes done.

So when I know what I'm doing and like I'm clear and I'm, and again, I might not have all the pieces, but like, I'm actually very quick at action taking. And, and that's the thing about getting space with your thoughts that is, I think something that a lot of people don't get is it doesn't take very long.

So, or it doesn't have to take very long. And so a big part, like, so the, the work that I do, I work with, with people who, um, you know, maybe they are the people pleaser, right? They're constantly putting everybody else's needs before their own. And then they wonder why they feel like crap. And there is this element of like, these, these ways that we have of thinking are very like old.

We've been replaying this sort of style of thinking our whole lives. And so we can't just be like, well, I'm just gonna think differently. Because it just doesn't work like that. Um, we can certainly kind of try, but the reality is we have to work with what's there. And so there's this, this part of like, even through movement when you're on the, on the yoga mat, or in the weight room, or wherever, there's gonna be thoughts that come up of like, oh, I, you know, my body is letting me down, or I feel so terrible, or I can't believe I haven't done this for six years and I feel so bad about myself and all of these things.

And so it's this skill of being able to see the fact that we're having a thought that doesn't support us in the direction that we want to go. And that's kind of the thing that I think is really fascinating is it's like we don't even have to question whether these thoughts are true or not. Right?

Because from a business point of view, I have objective evidence that I would make more money currently today working for someone else than I do at this very moment in time working for myself. So if that was my measure of success, then yeah, I'd probably be right in burning it all down and going and doing something else.

But if my commitment is to my business, which it is, and to my wellbeing, which it is, then having that thought is not helpful in taking me where I want to go. And so there's this part of, there's this piece of like, enough space to see that you're having a thought. Right. So I like the, I like the, um, strategy of just being like, oh, that's interesting.

I'm having the thought that I'm terrible at business. Um, and just kind of net labeling it, right? Like naming it. So that there's that thought that, that I'm terrible at this. Um, and for me, I- sometimes there is value in questioning our thoughts. Cause sometimes they're just straight up lies. But other times it's like, maybe that's true.

Right? Or maybe there's elements of truth. Maybe there's kernels of truth in that. So that makes me, it very hard for me just to sort of set aside. And so it's like, well, if I know what my values are, right? Which we, we know Laura Jean talks about all the time. We love her. Um, and if we know what, what our guiding light is, like our values can be this sort of guiding principle, if we know what that is, then it doesn't matter if the thought is true or not. We can decide if it's useful or not. Like does it have utility in moving me in the direction that I want to go? So if I wanna create a movement habit and my thoughts keep telling me that I'm lazy and um, too much in pain and, and whatever, I'm not, it, there, there might be some elements of truth to me in that statement, but it might not lead me towards the thing that I want, which is to create a movement habit.

And so then I can go, okay, this doesn't support me in what it is that I want. There's a good chance my brain's gonna keep telling me it though. And so I have to have a way to create enough space, and it doesn't have to be days of space, right? It's like literally happens in the moment of like, oh, that's interesting.

I'm having the thought that I'm lazy and this is never gonna work for me, but I'm really committed to trying. So here I go, let's strap on our shoes and let's, let's go do that movement. Um, And it's the same with business, right? Like, honestly, over the years, like I've worked for myself now for 13 years, um, and the number of times that I've wanted, well, not even wanted the number of times I've thought about, just like literally burning it to the ground is so many. I could, I, like every month I think like clockwork, I'm like, should we just, should we just light a match and set this thing on fire? 

Maestro: Just be done. 

Erica: Um, and I… 

Maestro: What doesn't even look like though? Cause it's like online space. It's like I'm just not posting anymore. And I sent an email to the people. 

Erica: Yeah. 

Maestro: This is done. It's interesting.

Erica: Or like a big, a big announcement of like, I, I've decided not to do this. 

Maestro: It could be so small, like you have a brick and mortar. You're like, ah, burn it down. An online business I'm like, what does that mean? 

Erica: It'd be so unsatisfying. 

Maestro: I canceled Canva. 

Erica: Yeah, that's right. I deleted all my apps today. Um, Canva is nothing to me now. Um, but it is, it's just having enough space to be like, oh, I gotta remind myself what I'm committed to. And, and the thing is that there might be a day where the answer is, oh yeah, I'm no longer committed to that. Like, but it's, it's having space.

The thing that can get really hard, I think, is that we get really uncomfortable with our thoughts because they, we make, it makes us feel like bad people, right? Like, oh, having these thoughts, I must be a terrible person. I must be, um, a, a bad human. I must be a bad business owner because I keep having these thoughts.

And then we build up so much shame. We build up so much guilt. We build up so much feeling of like otherness, right? Like everybody else is doing it right. Um, and so they kind of just simmer in the background. We don't ever pull them up close enough to us to be like, this is what I'm thinking and is this helpful for me in the direction that I want to go?

And I think that's the really powerful thing is like, honestly, the number of times that any of us in online business or any kind of business could walk away is, is honestly like we probably couldn't even count them for a lot of us. Um, but we gotta give, like, we gotta bring those thoughts like out of the recesses of our brain to be able to like do something with them.

Right. So yeah, 

Maestro: I think you have something so big there of the shame of having the thoughts. That's a different approach to things. The both and the duality of it. This is this, this conversation's really mirroring conversation, um, that Rachel brought up last night. She talks about gremlins and, you know, helping people move forward through things by acknowledge, which is exactly what exactly what you just said.

You acknowledge like acknowledgements is, can be the antidote so long as there's action taken next. And the action is guided by what your values are and you saying like, okay, that can be true and is not helping me get to where I want to go. The cool part here that you just said that I would love to have you tap into more is, the reality that they can both exist.

Like you said, the shame that people have because they have these thoughts. Like to me it's a really powerful statement right here of just like if you're gonna have 'em, you're gonna have 'em. Some people have 'em, some people don't. Like, there's no, it's okay. Like that permission that you're giving people of that. When, and maybe you don't have an answer for this because of kind of the direction the work has that you've done has taken, but do people come in wanting to get rid of the thoughts?

Erica: The thing that I hear most that would sort of speak to that, I guess, is people often will talk about wanting to find peace. Um, that's probably, and I, and I've thought about this a lot lately because, you know, we've had a lot of conversations around like, what did people come for? And I'm like, I don't know.

Um, but we should talk about that actually, how much the, the questions. Oh, the questions. Um, but I think that that's probably what people say more often than not is it's like, I just can't find peace. I can't find peace within myself. Because it, it's like, it's like, it's a big secret, that humans have very similar experiences.

 And I find that fascinating. You know, like the number of times, and not just in my work, but like in my life, I've always been the kind of person who's very honest about how I'm experiencing life. And I'm a, I'm a open book, you know, I will talk about my mental health struggles. I will talk about, um, the things that go on in my mind because I know that I, like, I've always kind of just like snuggled up with anxiety and depression.

I've, I've always erred more in that direction than like, you know, glass half full. And I know that about myself and I'm very honest about that. And there would it, I, I can't even count the number of times people will be like, I had no idea other people felt like that. And to me, the closer that we can get to our humanity together, right?

Like, the better. Because we spend so much time, and I use the royal we here because I know that there are exceptions to this rule, but we spend so much time trying to tidy up our human parts, right? And to make ourselves somehow more perfect. And in the process of doing that, we are denying our experience.

We're denying our reality. We're denying the things that are actually happening for us. And so of course we feel shame because anything that we deny, we are kind of saying, well, it's wrong. This is bad, this is not right. This shouldn't be happening. And the approach that I take is like, well, this is happening.

This is how you feel. This is what you think. And it's not bad. It doesn't make you a bad person. And so for me there's a a huge piece of just like education around like what it is to be a human. And that means that you have this safety, um, scanning machine in your head that's gonna make you do some pretty, kind of strange things sometimes and think some kind of strange thoughts.

And, you know, some of them are gonna be really uncomfortable. And it's like we think that having thoughts that are like maybe not nice or maybe, um, even mean sometimes, right? Makes us a bad person, makes us a cruel person, makes us a mean person. And that is just not true. It just means we have a human brain.

And so I want people to move in closer to their humanity in order to develop that self-love because we can't love ourselves only when it's all okay. Because I don't know when that happens. You know? Especially if you are like me, the kind of person who can be hard on yourself, who does? Kind of align with that idea of being a bit of a people pleaser, perhaps, you know, a bit of a perfectionist or, um, kind of feeling anxious a lot of the time, or sad or whatever it might be.

Um, yeah, we don't, we don't wanna just keep denying parts of ourselves. It's, it's a, it's a messy way to, messy way to live. 

Maestro: I have, I have multiple hats on right now and part of me is like, I want to thinking about business coaching, but then part of me is like, wait a minute, what's Erica saying? Let me… wait a minute.

And then part of me is like, the one statement that stood out is that people, and I know people say this, say to me like, I didn't know other, um, of you coming, you were saying something. Uh, and you know, I didn't know other people felt like this or experienced that. Which, that has been an interesting thing to hear.

Cuz I have gone into everything thinking, everybody thought this. Like, I'm like, oh, you don't like that? Oh. Okay well…

Erica: This is because you're a unicorn. 

Maestro: I'm like, wait a minute. That's not what you're thinking? Okay. Now I know and we're gonna talk now cuz I thought that's what, okay. So it's so, it's so interesting and I totally agree with you, that like people, you know, trying to hide parts.

And I wanna circle back to this because this, Erica and I have spent 15 years working on nicheing down and I, we do it from the, this is more of that duality. We do it from the business side. I just put an episode. Oh no, I just recorded an episode. It'll come out next. Well this is the fun of podcast land.

When this episode comes out, that episode would already have come out. Um, but I recorded an episode about, do you need to niche down? Cause I'm sick of this discussion online. Cause the answer is yes, you do. Like, if you go to a grocery store, you go into a grocery store, it's niched down. Like you're not like, oh, it has everything in here.

And like, I don't know what this is. I'm just gonna walk into this store. It has to have a, like a purpose. The problem it's solving. Especially in the online space, like the more specific you can be about the problem that you solve, the easier it is for people to say, yes, I have that problem and I would love for you to help me with it.

Yes, they can just fall in love with you and be like, you're awesome. I want you to help me with anything. But as a start and getting traction, being more specific with the problem you solve can be helpful. So Erica and I have have spent years now just navigating this and it makes sense, too. It makes so much sense.

Now, hearing Erica's story, it should make sense to you why it's been years because Erica is the type that is not afraid to try something on and wear it, and then is like, I don't want this anymore. Cool. All right. Like that is actually the process folks, for many of you, that's going to be the process of nicheing down.

And I have seen a market arise with business coaches saying, oh, you don't have to niche down, just come work with me and then charge, I'm gonna charge you a million dollars. And I'm like, also, no. They do have to niche down, but they have to go through the process of learning their no and being like, that's not it.

That's not it. Eh, that doesn't really fit. Oh, that's more closely to it. Especially, you know, someone like Erica, someone that is multi-passionate, multi-skilled, multi-talented. It's a, it's a, you have a leg up if you're like, I just like feet. Like I'm thinking about Courtney Conley, like chick just like, she likes feet. And it's like, well, bless.

It's great for you. But for most people you do have to go through these, go through these, this, these different things. What I keep getting stuck on and hearing what you're saying, and I had a conversation with a client the other day, is, there is a fine line between identifying the problem that you solve and trying to take away the things that people need.

Erica: Mm-hmm. 

Maestro: Right. So she was kind of like, I work with, um, oh gosh, what is they call, uh, high achievers and like the, these words came out and I'm like, but not trying to make them not be a high achiever because they need that. There's a safety and it probably is what got them this far. You're a high achiever yourself, which is why you've been able to do all things you have.

So like the way that it's phrased, like, I'm not trying to take that away from them. 

Erica: Mm-hmm. 

Maestro: So tying into what we've been talking about and you've been talking about, about being a people pleaser and perfectionism, and are you, how does that tie into your work? How does that tie into the niche? Are we looking to remove some of that from people?

Are we trying to acknowledge, accept, radical self-acceptance and then help them move towards something else? Where are we at? 

Erica: Oh, the old nicheing conversation. 

Maestro: There we go. 

Erica: You are not joking when you say we've had 15 years of, um, conversations about this. What I do wanna say, I, and I will answer your question, but I, what I wanted to say about that is, like, as business owners, the biggest thing for me with this has been not stopping to try to figure it out.

 Because I've continued to work and sell and do all those things while I keep trying to refine and figure it out. And I think that sometimes the reason that we want to not niche is because we're like, but I ju I, I've got like, I don't wanna slow down. Right? Like, I don't want to stop what I'm doing, so you don't have to do that.

Like, I have perhaps not pushed things as hard as I could because I'm like, I'm not entirely sure how to use the language to reach the people that I wanna talk to. But I've never like, just disappeared from the world. 

Maestro: Never. Never. 

Erica: So, um, yeah, the nicheing thing's been really hard for the longest time.

And you know, this, um, I've been very much focused on the vehicle of change, which for me is self-kindness, self-compassion, self-acceptance. And I couldn't get any language around who needed that vehicle and like what the outcome was. I was like, I just wanna sell the vehicle. Please let me just sell self kindness.

 And the number of times I'd get off a call with you and I like, I love you so much, but I would get off and I'd be like, why does she keep asking me the same question? I don't know the answer. And it was, and it has taken like, like literally years, literally years. Literally years. So yeah, for me, what I've realized is that the outcome that I want to support people with is self-love and self-acceptance.

It's that ability to be like, here is my whole human self. And I will be, I like the term, like I will be my own soft place to land because it kind of speaks to that desire that people have for peace, right? Because sometimes when you don't like yourself very much or when you're very focused on other people's stuff, being with yourself is really uncomfortable because you're mean, it's like sitting with somebody who's taunting you.

It's awful. Yeah. And so I want for people, if they want it for themselves, um, that sense of peace being with themselves.

Maestro: That word peace keeps coming up. 

Erica: Yeah. And so it's taken me a long time. I think I went vehicle first, then I realized the outcome was sort of self-love. And I resisted that for a really long time because I don't like the connotations that exist around that word.

And so I was like, I don't wanna talk about self-love. Exactly. I don't wanna talk about that. That's not what I wanna talk about. So, It was only in like very recent days actually that I was like, oh, the people that I'm speaking to are your people pleasers? Because people know that they can, I like people can self-identify as that.

Maestro: Yes. 

Erica: Right. Whereas when I'm using language around like, you don't like yourself very much, people don't necessarily equate that and I couldn't get that because for me it was like my language towards myself was, I hate myself. That was what I used to tell myself all the time, and it like, it makes me sad to think about it actually, but that was the language I used.

I hate myself. You're, you know, you're awful, you're useless, you're hopeless, and that is it. It was like a little too heavy maybe for what I wanna do, so I was like, what is the, what is the thing that people would self-identify as, right? It's not just anxiety because yes, it gives you anxiety to feel this way, but it's not just that.

It's not like you're walking around just being like, I wish I could get rid of my anxiety. It's like, I wish I could prioritize myself, but I can't because I'm so deeply entrenched in this kind of like people pleasing behavior. Um, I've lost myself. So I'm still working on this. I think I'll be working on, I honestly think I'm gonna be working on this forever.

Maestro: Forever. Absolutely. 

Erica: Um, and I'm fine with that. Yes. But I, I feel like every, and sometimes when I, when I stumble upon like a new like, moment of insight, I'm like, how did I, how did I not see that? What was I doing? Who have I been talking? 

Maestro: Love it.

Erica: So if, if anybody listening is like, I, I just, I, I tuned out because niching is painful.

Um, I think that allowing yourself those iterations is so important and knowing that you don't have to stop in order to like figure those iterations out. Like you talk all the time about posting every day for that reason, you know? And, um, I've been posting not every day because I haven't recently, but I've been posting very regularly for years, years, years.

Maestro: It's been years. 

Erica: I have not gone viral. I have not grown my following to to very big. Um, you know, I still sit on just over 2000 followers, so it's not like it's blown up. But my ability to speak to the person who needs my message or wants to, to receive that message has gotten just a little bit clearer every month, you know, or every few months.

Maestro: This is so real, Erica. I need everyone listening to this episode to rewind it and go listen to this. Like, this is, this is it. This is the standard, this is the norm. This is what, if you're gonna have expectations, this is it. The other stuff you see, it's clever marketing where people highlight the outliers, where people highlight the folks who have done the best.

And yes. Is it, uh, ethical in some ways because it's just showing what's possible? Yes. But there's a difference between showing what's possible and what's likely right. And what Erica is talking about, this is the standard, and I'm gonna say it's the standard because what Erica's doing, and what I want everyone to do is she's actually looking to go outside of the system.

So if we take it way back to what she was saying in the beginning and it being easier, that was talking about easier in people, people pleasing terms, but that's also gonna talk about it in terms of business, traditional business, staying within a very broken model. It would be easier to win the broken game by playing with the broken rules and doing the broken process.

As you folks say. Erica has said, wait, I wanna figure out what do I actually wanna do while still going, chick never, she never stopped. Who do I actually wanna be serving? In what way? That's a completely different game. That's a game of relating. Relating with yourself, relating with humans. That's outside of this model that we've, that we're all living in that you know, well I need to eat, so I'm in the game.

Right? This is outside of that and this is, that's how it works. It, if you think about it, if you were like in person as well, like, you don't just like blow up overnight. Like maybe one restaurant does, but that happened. Why? Because it like went on Instagram. Like, if you only had access to this kind of thing, this is, this is typical and standard and normal and realistic. So I really want you folks to go back and listen to what she has just chronicled as her experience with re reaching people and meeting people and that self-discovery process. I am still in it as well, like I'm just on the fortunate side, I'm one of the outliers that did start earlier and has an easier niche because I'm going B2B and teaching people about movement.

Then it's easier than being like, I'm gonna help you with your pain. People are like, I don't really want that. I'm good. I don't wanna hear about that today. Right. So the, I I don't like to use my own personal story and be like, if I did it, you could do it. I'm like, no, that's not actually science. The majority of folks are going to go along the same trajectory that Erica has said. And the reason that I still teach and preach and promote it is because of all the other stuff she's saying and how she's like, I can't do anything else. I wouldn't wanna do any other way. I don't wanna go back to that other thing. I wanna actually live my fucking life.

I wanna enjoy my life. I can't go back to that. And then if you do decide like, actually, I'm going to Costco, I'm gonna work there, fine. It's also totally fine. But just encouraging people to actually live and experience life. This is how online business works. Erica has just, you just said like, it's just, that's it.

That- what keeps you going? 

Erica: Well, interestingly, you know, talking about the standard and the outliers, I think the stories of the outliers sometimes are so helpful too, because you go, oh, I see what is possible. You know, I, I know that it is possible to make a living doing what I'm doing. And what keeps me going is-

I mean, I don't have any grand plans to like, create like a massive empire. Um, I'm too tired for that. Um, but yes, also, yes, you know, all the things like, like you said, I wanna live my life. You know, I, I've got hobbies that I, that I love, and I've got family and I've got two kids, and, um, I wanna live my life.

But the thing that keeps me going is a real sense that this is right. You know, like there's just, it's that gut feeling. That gut feeling. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I, you know, you, I always have to balance it out with like, what do we need as a family in terms of, of like making sure that we're still okay.

Um, but the reality is, I, me, my wellbeing, my joy and that of my family is more important to me than a squillion dollars. Like, that's what it comes down to for me. I often, you know, my husband David is, um, he works from home as well, and sometimes I just look at him and I'm like, I love this life we've made. Yes.

Like I just, I love us. I love our family. I love the things we do. Um, we don't have the newest cars, we don't have like all this flashy stuff, but we love our lives. We do stuff that brings us so much joy. We enjoy our time and to me, I'm not willing to give that up. Right. And I work hard. Like I work, like I work really hard.

 And I work very intentionally, but there is no martyrdom in what I do anymore. There is no sort of suffering in that. I recognize every day that I'm making the choice to do this and that I can just as easily make the choice to go and work at Costco or anywhere else. And so like I take responsibility for that I guess. There's that sense of just like, I have chosen this. I keep choosing it every day. If I change my mind, that is also fine. But, like I'm so committed to it. I, and I, and I feel like, and you know, kind of if we blow out bigger, bigger, why, um, like I think we change the world when we share what is ours to share.

And I feel like from, from the message that I share, that when one more person is kind to themselves and loving and you know, aligned, um, that changes things, that changes communities, that changes the world. Like it does. So that keeps me going too, because when people do find me and they're the right, you know, we're the right fit for each other, they get it.

You know, like it's like, not

 everybody has to get my work, but the people that do and the people that need it, and the people that want it, there is that deep sense of like, thank you for seeing me. Thank you for, um, yeah, thank you for seeing me in, in, in what I consider to be a messy human state. Um, and showing me that it's okay.

And, and that to me is everything

Maestro: So good. If you're listening to the podcast, you don't, you don't see what I was doing, but I was giving it a moment so it could marinate. Be okay with the silence, folks. People be like in their car. What's happening? What happened to the connection? We're still here. Was giving it a moment. Was giving in a moment.


this, I'm not gonna add anything. I'm not gonna summarize, rewind it, folks, and go listen to all of that again. I'm gonna lead us out. But before I do that, Erica, if people want to find more, if they wanna work with you, anything like that, give us your info. 

All right. Well, Instagram obviously. Um, so I am @ericawebb_selfkind.

Erica is with a C. Um, and my website is just ericawebb.com.Au. Um, and I do have a podcast, which Shante has been on, and, uh, one of the most downloaded episodes ever on my podcast. Um, and that is called Self Kind with Erica Webb. So pretty consistent. Erica Webb or Self Kind, you'll find me in all the places.

All the things. We will link that, that was actually, and I was actually just talking to Erica about this, I dunno maybe last week.

That was one of the best episodes that I've ever done. I, I, um, people like to give me a mic. I am very fortunate and very grateful for that. Um, but not all opportunities are created equal, and that was hands down one of the best episodes, guest episodes that I've ever been able to be on. So we will link that and we'll link the entire show and you can go, you folks can all go check, um, check all of that out.

I'm gonna brag on Erica for uh, a second here because this episode is about understanding what it's really like to have an online business. And Erica said it, um, but she said it quickly that, you know, she works very hard. Erica works incredibly hard and is the epitome of what I think an online business owner should do.

I don't love that word, but I'm gonna use it cuz I just did. It's my podcast. I do what I want. If you're looking to get traction in the online space, if you're looking to give yourself a chance to hang around long enough that maybe you do get lucky, cuz that is a component in the on online, ya know, in the Instagram space.

It's gonna be from the hard work that you put in and, and showing up. Like the episode I just did with Laura Jean, we talked about this and we're in a weird space right now. Like, everybody's mad about everything. And I'm like, you kinda like, can't say hard work. Cause then people are like, you know, I shouldn't have to work hard to like live.

And I'm like, but also, yes. So if we think about this, cuz Laura Jean talks about, you know, growing things and like, we're just cultivating here. What's, what's the harvest? You're not gonna grow anything if you don't do anything. Like I, I don't know what world you came from, but if you want something, you wanna cultivate something.

And this is not about having the most, it's not about taking from somebody else. If you just wanna create, you wanna cultivate, you wanna have something, you have to put in the work. And Erica has put in the work for eleventy billion years. She shows up. Yes. She's not, I don't wanna say she's like, she's not pivoting.

Right. Figuring out what direction she wants to go with things and what actually makes sense. And she's been so consistent. So she just used that word and you saw that all of the, uh, the domains and the names and such were consistent. Erica also does all the tech. She does all the stuff herself. She taught herself how to do these things, and she's one of the first words she use in this podcast episode, was resiliency or resilience. And that is at the heart of running and having, and establishing, starting an online business. I hear folks say like, I'm gonna come in, you know, come to the online space and like, I'm gonna outsource this. Like, I'm gonna just hire someone for that and I'm gonna like get someone for that.

And I'm like, you have no, you don't have any money. You're not making any mo- who's doing this. You have no voice, you have no message, and most importantly, you have no money. So, no, that's not gonna work. This episode, this person who I'm speaking to right now, this is at the heart of establishing, entering, building, continuing an online business.

It is the desire to keep showing up and to keep doing the things and to figure out the things. Not month after month after month. Right. That's one of the hardest things that, one of the most problematic things in the online space is that you can learn about online business in 30 seconds, but it takes five years to like start to get traction.

Like there's a disconnect there. There's people like, oh, I can do this. I'm gonna start. You have to keep showing up, right? So go check out all of Erica's things. Take note of how many podcast episodes she has. Take note of how many Instagram posts that she has. She has an email list as well. This is what it takes to actually continue and set yourself up for success in the online business space.

And bigger than that is that last part that she just said about what actually keeps her going. I think that's huge and I would love if you go and you rewind past all the shit I just said, back to what Erica was saying and listen to that again. Cuz that is, I'm like, my job here is done. That's your, like, David, I love our life. I'm like, well good.

We don't have to talk ever again, Erica. Okay. That's all I want. That's all I want. It's all I want. Just that feeling. There's nothing like that when you're just like, maybe for me it's like I'm walking outside, I'm sitting in the sun, or I'm walking around the block and the sun is definitely a part of this and I'm just like, this is great and I'm thoroughly enjoying my time here on this, this within this existence and this experience that I'm having.

Like, yes. All right. We got all your contact stuff. I'm gonna do the usual question and then I'll wrap us up. You've left us, you've given us rather so much. Is there anything that you would like to leave us, leave the people 


Erica: I think I might just say something about what you just said, um, in terms of like that hard work and, and commitment and stuff, and I, I think that a lot of the time I have spent time thinking that hard work and commitment is akin to martyrdom and suffering. Um, and then there's the other way, right? And, and what I hope people have heard in some of what I've said today is that you can still kind of like protect your peace for want of a better term.

Yeah. You can still follow your joy. You can still live your life in a way that feels really good to you and work hard. Like they don't have to be separate things. Like after this I'm going roller skating. Yes. I don't work on Fridays. 

Maestro: That didn't come up. I can't believe it didn't come up. 

Erica: Yeah. Yeah. I don't work, I don't work on Friday's, sort of front facing.

Um, and it's Friday where when we are recording this, even though I know it's not for you, um, and like that to me is a non-negotiable. So I don't cancel roller skating even when I'm busy because to me that is like so important. So I guess like my final message would be like, it is that self-kindness, right?

It is that self-respect of like, yes, build a business. Yes, work hard. Yes, put in the time because it does take the time, but you don't have to like kind of like martyr yourself or crap all over yourself in the process of doing that. You can still be your own best ally, look after yourself and build this thing sustainably.

Maestro: Yes. Yes. It's so good. There are so many ties. I'm gonna bring Erica on for a second episode. We'll do that when we do that. But I have all these things written down and I'm like, there's so many ties and I'm interested to see where she's at with the words she's using the next time we bring her on. So we'll see what's going on with that? 

You have all of the information, folks, please do me a solid, go check her out, right? That is my only ask for today. My call to action: if you liked it, if you loved it, if you were picking up what we are putting down, go check out Erica and connect with Erica. That's it. Okay.

Erica. EWebb. That's what we call her in the Mafia. EWebb, or maybe just just me, but I call her that.

Erica: No, it's everyone. 

Maestro: Might just be me. Thank you. For everything. This has been a phenomenal episode. It's been a phenomenal however many years just being in your ecosystem and having you in the Mafia, running the Mafia, doing all the things and asking the best questions.

Just thank you. 

Erica: Thank you. I appreciate you so much. I think you know that. 

Maestro: So, so good. So good. So good. And you folks listening to this, thank you. We know you could have been doing anything and you chose to listen to us, and for that we are both endlessly, endlessly, endlessly appreciative. I don't have any specific asks except from what I said before.

If you liked it, if you loved it, if you're picking up what we're putting down, do me a solid, tappy tap those links that are in the show notes or they're down below if you're listening, uh, excuse me if you're watching on the YouTubes, and go connect with Erica. 

All right. All right. All right. That's it. Until next time, friends, EWebb and Maestro, out.

Links & Resources For This Episode:

Watch this episode on YouTube!

Connect with Erica on Instagram: @ericawebb_selfkind
Check out Erica’s Website: ericawebb.com.au
Listen to the SelfKind Podcast
The SelfKind Podcast #32: Conscious Incompetence and Creating Agency with the Movement Maestro
MOTM #393: The Psychology of Creating with Rachel Strickland

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